@Curly Woods!
The main reasons for not publishing the Gerber files is that first of all, only a little handfull of skilled nerds will be able to assemble it properly, second of all, you will se them fitted with with black gates, Cerafines, Silmics and different transistors and other no brainer tweaks which we do not want to see, as this will deffinately not do any good.
You must know, that a discrete design like this does not react to different components in the same way op-amps do, contrary to op-amps, this design will change completely if tampered with.
As a result we do only complete PCB´s, and that is final.
Our attitude may seem arrogant, but I will try to explain a little about what has actually gone into this project.
Firts of all, the gear used for auditions are class A amps @ 40.000$ build on the same basic idea as our DAC is. The monitors are probably the most painstakingly acurate speakers available, which is perfect for a ultimate project (hardly anyone will like these speakers if they haven´t got the proper amplifiers for them).
Cabling has been everything from costly exotic cables through standard studio cables, which i actually happens to find most neutral.
In addition science was also involved, but never without listening, as we then inevitably would have ended up with another op-amp design, as they have the lowest TH+N.
A lot of recordings has been used for listening, but there was only one ultimate CD, namely the DPA grand piano CD http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Download/~/media/PDF/Download/grandpiano.pdf
which is an awesome recording of an awesome instrument, and if it was not for the fact, that the piano cannot get through the door to my listening room, you´ll not believe it isn´t there. And I actually have a piano in my house, and I am very familiar with the sound of this instrument.
As a result our design contains a minimum of idiosyncratics, only sound proven solutions, but not chosen the same way as no brainers do. So we did nor choose the ultimate fastest Toshiba or Sanken transistors, and neither the most expensive caps, and the chips with highest DNR, because that is simply not the point in proper engineering.
TPA did choose this as their mantra, which is both allright and mediocre at the same time. In addition they even got you guys go crazy about their sound.
Our project is for sound fanatics seeking true reproduction of sound what so ever. It is not for tweakers seeking a project to use their spare time on.
It might be way above a lot of DIYérs heads, but that is a risc we are willing to take.
If a mantra for our ideas and designs should be sugested, I´d say: If music doesn´t matter, then just use op-amps.
The main reasons for not publishing the Gerber files is that first of all, only a little handfull of skilled nerds will be able to assemble it properly, second of all, you will se them fitted with with black gates, Cerafines, Silmics and different transistors and other no brainer tweaks which we do not want to see, as this will deffinately not do any good.
You must know, that a discrete design like this does not react to different components in the same way op-amps do, contrary to op-amps, this design will change completely if tampered with.
As a result we do only complete PCB´s, and that is final.
Our attitude may seem arrogant, but I will try to explain a little about what has actually gone into this project.
Firts of all, the gear used for auditions are class A amps @ 40.000$ build on the same basic idea as our DAC is. The monitors are probably the most painstakingly acurate speakers available, which is perfect for a ultimate project (hardly anyone will like these speakers if they haven´t got the proper amplifiers for them).
Cabling has been everything from costly exotic cables through standard studio cables, which i actually happens to find most neutral.
In addition science was also involved, but never without listening, as we then inevitably would have ended up with another op-amp design, as they have the lowest TH+N.
A lot of recordings has been used for listening, but there was only one ultimate CD, namely the DPA grand piano CD http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Download/~/media/PDF/Download/grandpiano.pdf
which is an awesome recording of an awesome instrument, and if it was not for the fact, that the piano cannot get through the door to my listening room, you´ll not believe it isn´t there. And I actually have a piano in my house, and I am very familiar with the sound of this instrument.
As a result our design contains a minimum of idiosyncratics, only sound proven solutions, but not chosen the same way as no brainers do. So we did nor choose the ultimate fastest Toshiba or Sanken transistors, and neither the most expensive caps, and the chips with highest DNR, because that is simply not the point in proper engineering.
TPA did choose this as their mantra, which is both allright and mediocre at the same time. In addition they even got you guys go crazy about their sound.
Our project is for sound fanatics seeking true reproduction of sound what so ever. It is not for tweakers seeking a project to use their spare time on.
It might be way above a lot of DIYérs heads, but that is a risc we are willing to take.
If a mantra for our ideas and designs should be sugested, I´d say: If music doesn´t matter, then just use op-amps.
I guess the Buffalo will be 64-bit when you have this ready in 4 1/2 years😀
No - seriously. Real DIY alternatives to the Buffalo would be a good thing for the community🙂
Yeap... Guess you are right about the 64 bit. And to some people that is more important than sonic performance.
That's NO true. As I quite clearly stated, the 32 bit DAC is mostly for the gear-freaks, and not the ones seeking the absolute best sonic performance.
That's also the reason we will not spend 4½ years trimming it. It will be made almost the same way as typical DAC's... Just with the difference, taht we will use a known analog stage, not 100% like the normal app.note style.
I thought you said using opamps meant you were using an appnote? Now you are confusing me. I also thought you said opamps sound like garbage... why are you making a garbage DAC for DIYers (your definition, not mine)? Sounds hypocritical.
That describes most of diyAudio members.
I'd certainly like to see some backup evidence on your assertions about discrete versus IC op-amps. May I assume that you've done some controlled listening tests or have some measurements to support that conclusion?
The issue for me is it sounds like that you have came here to blow your own horn, put down TPA and now intend to bring out a "commercial DAC" for sale, after you stated that this was not a commercial venture from the beginning. Are you now planning to offer a product to the DIY community or not? You are talking out of both sides of your mouths. How can anyone trust either of you?
From where I stand you have touted your "end all, be all DAC", but will not sell it, as it was never intended to be a commercial product, but now all of a sudden, a less expensive, more "DIY friendly DAC" will be available for a price soon with op-amps, that you stated are not good for serious audio (which I do agree by the way)? This sounds like that you have been laying the ground work to kickoff the real product, by attempting to sell us on your design skills, when all along it was a ruse and you switch your position like a lady changes shoes. Your intent is and was to sell a DAC, just not the one that you were touting as the second coming of Audio Nirvana. Is that not correct?
If your intent is to be a commercial entity, inquire with the powers that be about purchasing your own "vendor forum" so that you can discuss the commercial aspects of this "new ADC" and these other products, there and not on the open forums. That is the right thing to do. I feel that your efforts had best bear real fruit, because your actions to this point, have soured many that might have considered any product that you offer.
From where I stand you have touted your "end all, be all DAC", but will not sell it, as it was never intended to be a commercial product, but now all of a sudden, a less expensive, more "DIY friendly DAC" will be available for a price soon with op-amps, that you stated are not good for serious audio (which I do agree by the way)? This sounds like that you have been laying the ground work to kickoff the real product, by attempting to sell us on your design skills, when all along it was a ruse and you switch your position like a lady changes shoes. Your intent is and was to sell a DAC, just not the one that you were touting as the second coming of Audio Nirvana. Is that not correct?
If your intent is to be a commercial entity, inquire with the powers that be about purchasing your own "vendor forum" so that you can discuss the commercial aspects of this "new ADC" and these other products, there and not on the open forums. That is the right thing to do. I feel that your efforts had best bear real fruit, because your actions to this point, have soured many that might have considered any product that you offer.
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Yes!
We intend to do a simple DAC available to all, as we will publish Gerber files and partslist, so that everyone can order PCB´s at Olimex and parts at Digikey and maybe from ESS - who knows, without ever involving us.
None of us are in any way related to neither Digikey nor Olimex.
The BOM will be redicoulus
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Just a few comments on the pictures found 4 messages above.
The power amplifier is 100 Watts pr. channel class A amp.
No NFB design fully DC coupled and with discrete design.
It runs @ 55 dgr. C even though it is vented by 2 pcs. of Papst fans providing 180 m3 Pr/h.
The preamplifier shows only one channel, the other one isbeneath the one you see.
The rectangular black things you se is custom made aluminium profiles for cooling of the transistors inside. The small red boxes are relays for one channel, both input and record out. The potentiometer is a Penny & Giles, and the switces are swiss made Elma´s.
The transformer for the preamp is located inside the power amp, to lower the noise inside the pre. It is a massive custom made UI core trans @ 110VA, but the core is much bigger .
The power amp consumes 1.200 watts and runs in class A into 6 Ohms full power.
The PSU is fully regulated for the voltage stages, to accomplish low noise and distortion.
The power stage utilises 16 power transistors pr. ch. @ 16A/250Watts each.
The driver stage 4 trans pr. channel 16A/250Watts each.
regulators are discrete all over.
Op-amps used only for DC servos
The power amplifier is 100 Watts pr. channel class A amp.
No NFB design fully DC coupled and with discrete design.
It runs @ 55 dgr. C even though it is vented by 2 pcs. of Papst fans providing 180 m3 Pr/h.
The preamplifier shows only one channel, the other one isbeneath the one you see.
The rectangular black things you se is custom made aluminium profiles for cooling of the transistors inside. The small red boxes are relays for one channel, both input and record out. The potentiometer is a Penny & Giles, and the switces are swiss made Elma´s.
The transformer for the preamp is located inside the power amp, to lower the noise inside the pre. It is a massive custom made UI core trans @ 110VA, but the core is much bigger .
The power amp consumes 1.200 watts and runs in class A into 6 Ohms full power.
The PSU is fully regulated for the voltage stages, to accomplish low noise and distortion.
The power stage utilises 16 power transistors pr. ch. @ 16A/250Watts each.
The driver stage 4 trans pr. channel 16A/250Watts each.
regulators are discrete all over.
Op-amps used only for DC servos
"In a somewhat phirosophicar sense, the concern that high
feedback factor and high Zol causes IIM seems to arise out
of the same kind of misunderstanding of the operation and
application of negative feedback which prompted many to
erroneously conclude that large feedback factor and narrow
open-loop bandwidth caused TIM. While it is not a universal
panacea, negative feedback does perform as advertised when
correctly analysed."
http://www.cordellaudio.com/papers/interface_intermodulation_distortion.pdf
As for generalization, would you say all opamps apply feedback the same way, and does feedback methodology matter in audio circuits?
Shush! They want to offer a commercial product in the members forum's, as they have zero advertising to pay for don't you know. Why buy a Vendor's Forum spot, when they can advertise here for free
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