Long speaker cables

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#3
For some crossover networks is a high value for the length critical concerning the whole transfer function.
Basically effect is the simultaneously longitudinal wire resistance in the high-pass and low-pass.
The outsourcing of the crossover from the speaker enclosure (speaker cabinet) and placing close to the amplifier is therefore my recommendation.
Now you need an additional speaker wire, but the longitudinal resistance and all parasitic values for inductance and capacitance now behind the crossover network. Risk of sonic quality change is considerably lower.
in addition there is the possibility for use of different wire tests in the high-pass and low pass independent.

Many success and best regards
Andreas
 
#4
25ft equals 8meter, right?

Should not be a major problem with normal cheap cables, like used in carfi
In my youth most people used long speaker cables, and sometimes much longer than needed, and very thin ones too, but noone cared much about cables at all
Though, I did try solid core copper from mains cabling
They probably sounded good, but I thought it looked too strange, and I left them again
I may have missed a good thing though

Ofcourse, very critical enthusiasts may want mono amps and short cables, but a different story

I would never have crossover moved away from speakers, on the contrary
Optimally some paralel parts of a crossover like zobels and tweeter attenuation should really be placed directly on driver terminals
 
#5
I've always been a sceptic when it comes to quallity of speaker cables when it comes to audio.

I thought that the little extra inductance and capacity would not matter at the rather "low" frequency.

Then I changed my cheap speaker cables and was amazed, it totally redefined the whole "audio image".
 
#6
Nelson Pass said:
That depends on a lot of things, but it is not necessarily a problem.

😎
Click to expand...

I am driving a pair of B&W803N with my modified Adcom5400. Are long cables a problem in this case?

tinitus said:
25ft equals 8meter, right?

Should not be a major problem with normal cheap cables, like used in carfi
In my youth most people used long speaker cables, and sometimes much longer than needed, and very thin ones too, but noone cared much about cables at all
Though, I did try solid core copper from mains cabling
They probably sounded good, but I thought it looked too strange, and I left them again
I may have missed a good thing though

Ofcourse, very critical enthusiasts may want mono amps and short cables, but a different story

I would never have crossover moved away from speakers, on the contrary
Optimally some paralel parts of a crossover like zobels and tweeter attenuation should really be placed directly on driver terminals
Click to expand...


ace7one said:
I've always been a sceptic when it comes to quallity of speaker cables when it comes to audio.

I thought that the little extra inductance and capacity would not matter at the rather "low" frequency.

Then I changed my cheap speaker cables and was amazed, it totally redefined the whole "audio image".
Click to expand...

My cables are Radio Shack 12 gauge. They are not expensive but are better than lamp cords. I have not experimented with cable quality, but in general I am skeptical of expensive cables.
 
#7
ace7one said:
I've always been a sceptic when it comes to quallity of speaker cables when it comes to audio.

I thought that the little extra inductance and capacity would not matter at the rather "low" frequency.

Then I changed my cheap speaker cables and was amazed, it totally redefined the whole "audio image".
Click to expand...


I have never found this, changing cables made no difference at all.

Given the output impedance of an amp is close to zero a length of cable will make neglible difference unless running very high power and then it will be just simple losses to heat in the cable.
 
#8
25 feet isn't a terribly long run,it should be fine..(Unless you're using some kind of funky cable with really high L or C.)

I am highly skeptical of cables,and many other 'tweaks'. But,I had been using cheap bulk 16AWG lamp cord for speaker wire for years,always worked great,and sounded good..One day I found a spool of leftover wire from a friends car install,Rockford Fosgate 15AWG OFC stuff,lots of fine strands. I wasn't expecting anything,but I did notice a (very slight) change in the sound..Without too much jargon,it sounds more 'extended' and 'controlled'.The highs got a tad crisper,and the bass got a tad more solid and deep.. It's a very small change,hardly noticeable..Might simply be because of the slightly larger gauge,or better contact resistance at the terminals,from the many finer strands...I really have no idea.
But,I've been using the RF wire ever since. :xeye:

Interconnects are another matter,in all of my own experiments,I didn't hear any real difference,except the amount of hum/noise that some designs let through..Some were so bad they were simply unusable. :dead: I prefer to stick to shielded coaxial cable.
 
#9
I find it useful now and again to repeat the fact that oxidation,
dirt, oils, and looseness compromise connections in a real, measurable
way. Happens all the time.

When comparing cables, do yourself the favor of first cleaning and
re-seating the original cables and spend some time with that sound
before inserting new ones.

You may be surprised...

😎
 
#11
Mr. Pass are right.
Also often overlooked are the unwanted transition resistors by
spring-loaded speaker terminal like
http://www.monacor.de/typo3/index.php?id=84&L=1&artid=2404&spr=EN&typ=full
I know people, who have disass'y complete speakers and amplifier devices because they thought that a faulty would be there in the electronic elements
Another source of unwanted transition resistor there are dual pole terminals for bi-amping (even if gold-plated). Good solution is to replace it through lead wire or put in
Spring/ tooth washer like
http://www.klimapartner-berlin.de/images/fotoLeiste/zahnscheibe.jpg or
http://www.schraube-mutter.de/images/Bild18.jpg
tooth washer also helpful by cable lugs.
Many users think, that a good quality solder connection gives also bad influence to sonic quality. However, I can not confirm this one (also result of my own investigations).
Condition is of course by solder the oxidation (also paint for insulation) must be completely decomposed, so that each copper strand was dipped in solder.
 
#15
Reading the article, it appears that the author attributes a significant
high frequency roll off on a 150 ft length of cable to the use of
multi-strand wire and cites a big improvement with solid wire.

I do know that 150 ft of Monster Cable (measured back in 1980, see
the cable article posted at www.passdiy.com) will roll off about a
decibel at 20 KHz into an 8 ohm resistive load.

It would be interesting if someone else could also demonstrate that
solid wire has much improved inductance and capacitance.

😎
 
#16
ctong said:
Are long speaker cables (25ft) a bad idea? Is the inductance large enough to cause treble roll-off or stability problems?
Click to expand...

I think you are talking about something on the order of about 20 micro Henrys. Reactance at 20Khz is very small. Almost any other effect will be larger. What is the tolerance on the inductor in the crossover. The uncertainty in it's value is likely much more then the inductance in the cable.

Maybe we should worry more about the air temperature and barometric pressure in the listening room and how that effects the speed of sound and hence wavelength of a given frequency.
 
#17
Nelson Pass said:

It would be interesting if someone else could also demonstrate that
solid wire has much improved inductance and capacitance.

😎
Click to expand...


Well, I tried to get some facts on this subject a while ago, so I compared 2.5mm2 solid core (ok magnet wire) and 2.5mm2 stranded.
I decided that I would most likely never need speaker cables longer than 15', and at that length, I could measure no significant difference.

My conclusion was, that solid 2.5mm2 wire is a PITA to work with, 2.5mm2 stranded wire is less of a PITA to work with, so stranded wire it is.


Magura 🙂
 
#19
Cables add some rather small portion of "blur" to sound, independent of their L and C. For instance, very good sounding STEREOVOX LSP-600c acoustic cable has worse than medium L and C measurements. But this small "blur" is revealed only in systems of high enough level. So, considering possible effects of long cables one might want just try to compare sound with different cables. If no difference, than no need to care about cable length, IMHO, accounting for their total R, of course.
 
#20
Re: Re: Long speaker cables

ChrisA said:


I think you are talking about something on the order of about 20 micro Henrys. Reactance at 20Khz is very small. Almost any other effect will be larger. What is the tolerance on the inductor in the crossover. The uncertainty in it's value is likely much more then the inductance in the cable.

Maybe we should worry more about the air temperature and barometric pressure in the listening room and how that effects the speed of sound and hence wavelength of a given frequency.
Click to expand...


20muH has a impedance of 1.2ohms at 20kHz. So it should not be a big problem for 8ohm speakers.
 
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