As Russ said, it depends. Both methods are described in the latest version of the guide.
B-IIIse and performance
cjf: The short answer is yes, you can build a DAC based on the Twisted Pear modules which has comparable sound quality and perfromance to the commercial products which you have mentioned.
The long answer is that you can build a DAC which outperforms most of the DACs which you have mentioned, but this will depend on how you do the build. When doing DIY there are a lot of possible options:
Some folks choose to pair a B-IIIse with a non Twisted Pear output stage, for example... Some folks might use a B-IIIse and Legato 3 or IVY III, but use different power supplies...
Some folks might change components, and even component values on the Twisted Pear boards looking for improvements/changes to the sonics (resistors, capacitors, etc).
And there is source choice: differnet USB modules for computer audio can make for performance improvements as well...
I tend to prefer the sound of the ESS chip when it is synchronously clocked and fed from a very low jitter source, this can be done as well.
So the reality is that there is no easy answer to your question: the good thing is that once you get a little experience, you can experiment a bit, and end up with a DAC which is fine tuned to suit your system and preferences, but it will take time, and effort in experimenting. A bog stock B-IIIse/IVY III build, using the SPDIF input and all stock parts with Placid power supplies will get you very, very good perfromance, on equal footing, in general, with some of the DACs which you mention. Going further with the Legato 3, and some mods or different approaches to parts selection, power supplies and configuration can gain even more performance, and if you use a really good asynchronous USB source connected by I2S even better...
If you want to learn more, be sure to study others' builds, and read the threads on the IVY III and Legato output stages as well.
cjf: The short answer is yes, you can build a DAC based on the Twisted Pear modules which has comparable sound quality and perfromance to the commercial products which you have mentioned.
The long answer is that you can build a DAC which outperforms most of the DACs which you have mentioned, but this will depend on how you do the build. When doing DIY there are a lot of possible options:
Some folks choose to pair a B-IIIse with a non Twisted Pear output stage, for example... Some folks might use a B-IIIse and Legato 3 or IVY III, but use different power supplies...
Some folks might change components, and even component values on the Twisted Pear boards looking for improvements/changes to the sonics (resistors, capacitors, etc).
And there is source choice: differnet USB modules for computer audio can make for performance improvements as well...
I tend to prefer the sound of the ESS chip when it is synchronously clocked and fed from a very low jitter source, this can be done as well.
So the reality is that there is no easy answer to your question: the good thing is that once you get a little experience, you can experiment a bit, and end up with a DAC which is fine tuned to suit your system and preferences, but it will take time, and effort in experimenting. A bog stock B-IIIse/IVY III build, using the SPDIF input and all stock parts with Placid power supplies will get you very, very good perfromance, on equal footing, in general, with some of the DACs which you mention. Going further with the Legato 3, and some mods or different approaches to parts selection, power supplies and configuration can gain even more performance, and if you use a really good asynchronous USB source connected by I2S even better...
If you want to learn more, be sure to study others' builds, and read the threads on the IVY III and Legato output stages as well.
This is DIY. As such Russ and Brian can build good modules and I may write a pretty decent manual but in the end it's up to you to make it work as good as it can be.
To my knowledge there is no commercial ES9018 dual mono implementation that has 4 (or rather 2+2x2 = 6) shunt pre-regulators and 8 (10) shunt regulators. If it does, it's likely a bit expensive. So in that sense: no, it's not fair to compare a DIY product to a commercial one. The BIII(SE) design is quite flexible so it'll take quite a while before you run out of upgrade options.
Note: The nCore modules are almost plug and play, be prepared for a lot more work building the BIIISE.
I can second what barrows said. I have a dual mono BIII with single Legato I/V board. Is it fair to compare? Of course. As Leon pointed out it is highly optimized. Results can vary in diy depending on execution, but if you do it right you will be rewarded with a DAC that punches way above it's price point with the inputs/features you want. My DAC is dead quiet and sounds very close to my analog vinyl sound. Closest I've ever been anyway. IMO it's the output stage that gets better with higher cost DAC's and players.
I opted for the discrete balanced output Twisted Pear Legato output board. That required getting a balanced pre amp since my amp was balanced. I think discrete balanced out sounds a little better than the single ended out.
I have no affiliation with TP, just a happy customer.
EDIT: One more thing to add. I felt my DAC was worthy of a nice enclosure. I went with HiFi2000/modushop machining so it looks great in my system. That cost me ~ $300US but it was worth it.
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I have a dual mono BIII with single Legato (I tried 2 Legatos but finally ended up with 1). Legato is packed with hi-end caps and resistors. Big and good transformers, good caps in TP Placids. I have nothing to compare with but I like the sound a lot. System: amps - Classe, speakers - B&W 802 Diamonds, cabling - reference Cardas. I tried SRPP stage instead of Legato and Unballancer from Broskie as well. There's more punch in mid-bass and bass, the sound there is richer, at least, in my system. But the detail of Legato and its spaciousness just makes me come back to it after all experiments. Maybe there's a way to improve Legato regarding mid-bass? That bass tubes give? I don't know. It could be a fantastic step forward. Maybe transistors change? Any advice?
I now have dual mono BIIISE up and running, so far with only RBCD transport into SPDIF. The SPDIF inputs on the two boards are paralleled, which lowers input impedance to 37.5 ohms. Would it be preferable to bring the impedance back up to 75 ohms by doubling the value of the SMD input resistor?
You could actually just remove one, but doubling the values of both would also work well. You likely don't need to do anything at all.
Quick ESS 9018 question
I have read somewhere that the ESS 9018 requires the OSF to be on for DSD to work. I can find no mention of this in the data sheet, but of course, the ESS data sheet is not really all that complete.
Can anyone confirm absolutely that the OSF must be engaged for the ESS 9018 to decode DSD data?
I have read somewhere that the ESS 9018 requires the OSF to be on for DSD to work. I can find no mention of this in the data sheet, but of course, the ESS data sheet is not really all that complete.
Can anyone confirm absolutely that the OSF must be engaged for the ESS 9018 to decode DSD data?
Remote control module
Just picked up a remote control module with a 10k pot from John Chapman at Bent Audio. Normally his modules have 50k pots but he just happened to have some 10k's on hand and was kind enough to do the modification for me at no extra charge.
According to John "You can use one of the pot decks if you want 10k or parallel both decks if you want to run it at 5k".
Really nice guy to deal with & he did the modification & had it to me in about one week.
Just picked up a remote control module with a 10k pot from John Chapman at Bent Audio. Normally his modules have 50k pots but he just happened to have some 10k's on hand and was kind enough to do the modification for me at no extra charge.
According to John "You can use one of the pot decks if you want 10k or parallel both decks if you want to run it at 5k".
Really nice guy to deal with & he did the modification & had it to me in about one week.
Brian
The VC control this poster is referring to is not a typical log function taper, it is linear, so no worries there. I actually just built an external remote volume control for a friend using this same motorised pot set up and a mini XLR cable into my friends B-IIIse based DAC and it is working perfectly. I connected the two pots in parallel. I think the Bent audio folks may have a few more of these laying around they want to get rid of so anyone looking for a simple way to add remote VC to B-III/B-IIIse might consider picking one up.
The VC control this poster is referring to is not a typical log function taper, it is linear, so no worries there. I actually just built an external remote volume control for a friend using this same motorised pot set up and a mini XLR cable into my friends B-IIIse based DAC and it is working perfectly. I connected the two pots in parallel. I think the Bent audio folks may have a few more of these laying around they want to get rid of so anyone looking for a simple way to add remote VC to B-III/B-IIIse might consider picking one up.
Correct, it is a linear ALPS 844G 10KBX2
Correct again, John mentioned "by a fluke I have some 10K linear alps around - not a lot but some here. I just a while back sent a couple to an OEM for a similar application and originally I bought them for that kind of thing here on a volume control pcb I was building for testing."
The German rep for Alps has 10k linear taper dual channel motorized pots - bought some for my Volumite/Joshua Tree built with Vishay bulk foils - works just fine. Added some Ebay Chinese Alps remote volume controls and motor controller boards (came with 100k audio taper pots, but subbing the 10k Alps linear fitted easily - parallel both channels to get 5 k linear and used it to remotely operate the DC control voltage. Beats my Electroswitch /non-magnetic Holco resistor previous stepped level control for resolution (it better - it cost enough for the Vishays) and I have remote control.
Have enough extra sets of 10k 2 channel linear taper motorized pots and remote control boards for my Buffalo III SE build later this year
Have enough extra sets of 10k 2 channel linear taper motorized pots and remote control boards for my Buffalo III SE build later this year
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No Lock
Hi,
already posted this in the support forum bur got no answer:
"just received two new Buffalo 3se dad boards for me and a friend. today we together soldered the parts.
and now one se3 has lock when i connect it to a source (M2tech Highface Usb to spdif) and the other has no lock with the same connections.
already checked and resolderd anything ( three times). all smd-led are working. the voltage measured at the tridents are ok (1,16 v, 3,23 v, 3,23 v) and right position. AVCC 3,4 V out booth sides Terminal blocks measured. led tested.
but only mute is on; no lock?"
how to proceed now? where to measure to narrow the problem down?
thx
branko
Hi,
already posted this in the support forum bur got no answer:
"just received two new Buffalo 3se dad boards for me and a friend. today we together soldered the parts.
and now one se3 has lock when i connect it to a source (M2tech Highface Usb to spdif) and the other has no lock with the same connections.
already checked and resolderd anything ( three times). all smd-led are working. the voltage measured at the tridents are ok (1,16 v, 3,23 v, 3,23 v) and right position. AVCC 3,4 V out booth sides Terminal blocks measured. led tested.
but only mute is on; no lock?"
how to proceed now? where to measure to narrow the problem down?
thx
branko
Hello again,
looking for the right way to use the (new) 4:1 Mux/Demux Digital Switch and 4-Input Selection Switch (this version has a place for Jumper J1) for Buffalo IIIse?
I have connected 5V and GND to booth boards (on 4-Input Selection Switch to header: pin 2 and 4). Led light (1 to 4 onboard) up when i turn the switch but there seems not to be a signal changing.
Should header pin 6 (low) go to S0 and pin 8 (high) to S1 on Mux board? have I to use the jumper?
Thx
branko
(same post in support forum but no answer)
looking for the right way to use the (new) 4:1 Mux/Demux Digital Switch and 4-Input Selection Switch (this version has a place for Jumper J1) for Buffalo IIIse?
I have connected 5V and GND to booth boards (on 4-Input Selection Switch to header: pin 2 and 4). Led light (1 to 4 onboard) up when i turn the switch but there seems not to be a signal changing.
Should header pin 6 (low) go to S0 and pin 8 (high) to S1 on Mux board? have I to use the jumper?
Thx
branko
(same post in support forum but no answer)
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Hi, Russ and Brian!
Please, renew avail. date of BUFFALO IIISE DAC
in your store
The Buffalo-IIISE (Stereo Edition) 2-Channel DAC
I would like to make some orders..
Thanks in advance!
Please, renew avail. date of BUFFALO IIISE DAC
in your store
The Buffalo-IIISE (Stereo Edition) 2-Channel DAC
I would like to make some orders..
Thanks in advance!
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Buffalo III-SE is now available again.
Also we have some news regarding Placid HD:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twis...-2-1-lesson-teamwork-passion.html#post4115080
Cheers!
Russ
Also we have some news regarding Placid HD:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twis...-2-1-lesson-teamwork-passion.html#post4115080
Cheers!
Russ
Bought a B3-SE approx 1,5year ago - and haven't had time to put it in use until now, because we got a baby. Anyway, now when i put it running with a SEN i/v i have trouble that one channel works fine, while the other does only output from one phase and signal from that phase seems lower than the ones on the other channel.
I actually have two SEN i/v's and i have same trouble with both - so i think the problem would be the DAC itself... i haven't tried voltage out - because of to little time, but i think it will show the same problem.
Both channels AVCC does output approx 1.75v, so maybe that is not the problem.
What would Russ or Brian (or anybody else) think the problem might be too, and what should i check first?
I actually have two SEN i/v's and i have same trouble with both - so i think the problem would be the DAC itself... i haven't tried voltage out - because of to little time, but i think it will show the same problem.
Both channels AVCC does output approx 1.75v, so maybe that is not the problem.
What would Russ or Brian (or anybody else) think the problem might be too, and what should i check first?
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