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Legato or IVY III outputs for Buffalo II?

I dare writing a review. Not based on technical terms but on feelings (who can use that?).

I absolutely love the way the Legato present the material! The nerve, the feeling, the body and soul (and all that c…).

I get the feeling, “I want to play some more”. What else can you possible ask for?

So yesterday I swapped out the Legato and popped in the IVY-III, and got the feeling, “ok, that’s it and so what?” The involvement was gone, the fun was gone. (Well not gone, but reduced to an indifferent level, so if your judgment is black and white, then the IVY fails!)

I can’t follow that the Legato should be less dynamic than the IVY, rather the opposite is the case here.

Remember, I’m not talking about low end extension, highs definition… - only the feeling I get when listing to music through the Legato.

We’re all different.
 
There are some of things to keep in mind with Legato and IVY-III.

They both do their best work at balanced output.

For me at least they do sound different, but I really can't choose a favorite.

I expect there will be as many opinions about which is better as people who try them both. :)

I do have to say I really love legato with the classical guitar recordings I have been listening to lately. It just sounds very natural or live if you will.

I will have to swap the Legato for the IVY later and try the same recordings.
 
Lagato Vs IVY

I just swapped back to IVY while I get new resistors for the Lagato (I need a little more gain to match my other sources)
I am finding it hard to describe the differences also. I have stated before that I felt that the Lagato is more liquid and I know that really does not mean anything. So I will restate that I just like it better. But I do need more gain.
I am wondering if a little bit larger xformer on the Placid would be better. I am using the one from TP 30VA I have room for a 50VA
 
Hi there,
I'm thinking of using both Legato and Ivy III with Buffalo sandwiched in between, first question is;
will single Placid BP provide enough juice for both? (no buffer on Legato)
second; can they be both stacked to Buffalo at the same time, Ivy below, Legato above the Dac on same headers? I'm thinking of using bistable relays to switch between the two. Possible?

Regards
Peter
 
Listening First Impressions

First, a huge thanks to Russ and Brian, for making it possible to achieve such high performance with the B-II!

Setup: B-II running on a regulated battery supply with 4000 uF Cerafines at the output. Legato with PRP and TX2575 resistors, Amtrans film/foils, Silmic IIs for on board power decoupling, and Mundrof zNs for output coupling. Set to 1.9 volt output, running on 15 Vs from a single Placid BP. SPDIF right now from bel canto CD-1 as transport.

Sound-excellent, details+, individual images taking on a nice 3D shape, palpable tone textures, dynamics, all good. Best is that high level of resolution is achieved while at the same time not sounding harsh, tilted up, or digital in any way.

I have heard a lot of different digital products, and in terms of a level, balanced approach to music, this DAC is performing excellently.

I am very excited about the possibilities with (under development) new high resolution, asynchronous, USB-I2S interface Russ is working on...
 
Help me out here Russ. By 187-221R do you mean between 187R and 221R at R1-R4 and a factor 2.2 (according to the manual) more at R20-R24 ?

For best results yes(except R22 is not involved) . But things should still work even with the stock values for R20,21,23,24. But it would be better to increase them as well.

From the manual:

Other applications:
If you want to change the output voltage you need to adjust both the top (R1-R4) value and bottom (R20,R21,R23,R24) values in proportion to each other. I have found that a ratio of 1 / 2.2 works very well for top resistor values up to about 364R. I have not tried gain any higher than that. If you need to please contact us.

Cheers!
Russ
 
I thought I'd try how the Legato simulates with only BJT semiconductors (no MOSFET, thus), so I fired up MicroCap 10, and did some long-runtime
20 kHz spectra simulations.

THD in both SE and balanced mode is amazingly low at 20 kHz.

Attached are the schmeatics I used, and the balanced and SE mode spectra and total THD summed to the 10th harmonics.

Enjoy!



Regards,
Ingemar

Hi Spartacus,

The best I can do is tell you how it simulates and sounds right now. The THD is amazingly low for having no feedback.

Here is the simulated FFT at 20khz it only gets better as the frequency gets lower.

Cheers!
Russ
 

Attachments

  • Legato All - BJT.gif
    Legato All - BJT.gif
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  • Legato For 20kHz THD Bal Mode REV R2C.GIF
    Legato For 20kHz THD Bal Mode REV R2C.GIF
    54.6 KB · Views: 690
  • Legato For 20kHz THD SE Mode REV R2C.GIF
    Legato For 20kHz THD SE Mode REV R2C.GIF
    51 KB · Views: 673
Maybe somone is interested in seeing how the input currents look like and how the output voltages look like. If so, see attachment.



/IR



I thought I'd try how the Legato simulates with only BJT semiconductors (no MOSFET, thus), so I fired up MicroCap 10, and did some long-runtime
20 kHz spectra simulations.

THD in both SE and balanced mode is amazingly low at 20 kHz.

Attached are the schmeatics I used, and the balanced and SE mode spectra and total THD summed to the 10th harmonics.

Enjoy!



Regards,
Ingemar
 

Attachments

  • Legato All - BJT Input Currents and Output Voltages.gif
    Legato All - BJT Input Currents and Output Voltages.gif
    127.4 KB · Views: 670
Ivy II or Legato

Hi

Well this thread did turn in bit strange direction and I'm not sure if my post will fit hire, but after few days of listening and comparison I decided to put my 5 cents into the question IVY or Legato.

In short …..
I definitely can sign under /avr300 review, as he nicely put this, suddenly all of THD and DNR and all the technical stuff lost all its appeal and all that left was the music.........
So Legato for me ..this is crazy, hot stuff... but sounds just amazing....

I'm using Buffers and Lundahl LL1517 trafo to do DIF/SE into my power amp.
and ruining without SE OPAmp section mounted at all.

OK few remarks, I probably shouldn't but... :

I have done some late night listening with my HD 650 with Differential cable and did comparison Legato vs IVY and.... few things:

With HD650 ... Legato was more "musical" but the difference wasn't so great. Using just headphones it would be much harder to decide. Connected to PowerAmp and speakers the difference is obvious from first few seconds of music. Or the IVY and Legato are not so great to power HD 650 or HD 650 are not so great headphones (???) Or something else....
Hmm sounds strange...any comments on that??.

I have connected HD650 to Legato Buffer with and without the output caps and well You can hear that caps. If You are going to use caps I would advise to try making this little experiment to see for Yourself.. but measure the DC before caps.. and the little risk is Yours.....

About IVY tweaking ...
There is no thread about it here and I would say that there is lot of potential in IVY tweaking.....
But if You have IVY and headphones with Differential cables and half an hour …...
Try connection after first OPA, in filter caps. For me this was definitely "better" than standard DIF IVY output after second OPA..... I just couldn't resist, IVY was for me just bit overOPAmped...:D..
And
Some of Legato charm in my system probably is caused by its A klass load on Power supply, and I'm using hand made TedyPrado power supply so please take on account that with Placid, IVY could sound better than in my setup.

OK it supposed to be short ….

Anyway Legato is absolutely the Hot Stuff to Listen....... the best Buffalo I've heard so far....


Best Regards
Rosendorfer
 
Another vote for Legato - didnt take me long to conclude i much prefered the sound compared to IVY III in my system.

Difficult to describe the difference in detail but seems to have improved on the subtleties of the music or macro detail if you like and a more natural presentation. I havent noticed any loss in overall detail.

Current setup is completely stock - dual bipolar placid's, bal/se stage assembled but not powered using balanced outputs into Bryston BP25 pre amp, Bryston 4BSST and PMC IB2.
 
Should add its the best source i have tried in the system by far! - have tried pro interface / dac's, Linn Ikemi CD and Wadia CD..
Crafty

This sounds prety serious...
I bet Russ will like Your statement....

Guys

Is there a chance You could possibly try my litle sugestion about IVY conected after first OPAmp.. This way IVY sounded definetely "better for me". I'm curious if this what I hear is real?? And did You know about any mods of filter caps for IVY..this is something I'm thinking for next late night listening..:p.

All the Best
Rosendorfer