I live in a small apartment, but still want a quality sound. I usually don't need it loud, but want a lot of reserve if I ever decide to use it. Also I don't want to showoff the sound system, so need it to be somewhat invisible.
All considered, a 2.1 system is probably the way to go? Stuffing the sub under a couch. The opening is around 15cm, so I am wondering how well would a flat box sound, around 30 to 50 liters, but only 10cm internal height. Speaker(s) facing upwards.
I am looking in to a couple of Visaton W170S-4 in parallel (2Ω overall) for a sub.
It would be an active sub with 130W laptop brick - 19V only, so I need 2Ω speaker to get around 80W RMS.
The amp would be a class-D module from Aliexpress.
The questions are:
1. Will a narrow enclosure sound as good as a standard "cube" one?
2. What is the best way to go if I use two speakers? Perhaps use the second speaker instead of a vent or passive radiator? Need some advice on this...
All considered, a 2.1 system is probably the way to go? Stuffing the sub under a couch. The opening is around 15cm, so I am wondering how well would a flat box sound, around 30 to 50 liters, but only 10cm internal height. Speaker(s) facing upwards.
I am looking in to a couple of Visaton W170S-4 in parallel (2Ω overall) for a sub.
It would be an active sub with 130W laptop brick - 19V only, so I need 2Ω speaker to get around 80W RMS.
The amp would be a class-D module from Aliexpress.
The questions are:
1. Will a narrow enclosure sound as good as a standard "cube" one?
2. What is the best way to go if I use two speakers? Perhaps use the second speaker instead of a vent or passive radiator? Need some advice on this...
How deep are the woofers? Difficult I think to say if the sound will be obstructed so much by the coach that it is noticable. I dont think the resonances in the shallow box is a concern for the low freqs. A row of half a dozen or so of 5-inch cones horizontally on the side facing towards the room is another possibilty.
Interesting if you fufill this idea. Curious about it myself.
Interesting if you fufill this idea. Curious about it myself.
Here is one project, internal height 8cm. It is in Finnish though but there are enclosure dimensions and driver brand and model in international format 
I don't know how it sounds. Must be better than no sub if you want one.
Kaiutinrakennusohje Takuumurea lehtipihvi - littea aktiivisubwoofer XLS-10-Slim-P835028-bassoelementilla | AudioVideo.fi
I don't know how it sounds. Must be better than no sub if you want one.
Kaiutinrakennusohje Takuumurea lehtipihvi - littea aktiivisubwoofer XLS-10-Slim-P835028-bassoelementilla | AudioVideo.fi
Yes, upward-facing or side-facing is another dilemma.
My speakers of choice as of now are:
W 170 S - 4 Ohm | Visaton
Should fit.
Also I like this one:
W 130 S - 4 Ohm | Visaton
Barely, but still fit-able in 15cm. Two of these would require 60 liters of volume, which is bit too much. 40 liters also possible, with higher cutoff.
I chose Visaton due to low price, clear specs and very flat response curve with 20 and 30 liter enclosures. Should be easy to implement without too much effort.
Or, alternatively, I could fit several of these to blast to the side.
3.9'' inch Subwoofer Speaker Steel Magnetic Loudspeaker 30W for Harman For JBL | eBay
They look nice, however even these basic specs are questionable. And no specs to build an enclosure.
thanks tmuikku, this looks really interesting.
My speakers of choice as of now are:
W 170 S - 4 Ohm | Visaton
Should fit.
Also I like this one:
W 130 S - 4 Ohm | Visaton
Barely, but still fit-able in 15cm. Two of these would require 60 liters of volume, which is bit too much. 40 liters also possible, with higher cutoff.
I chose Visaton due to low price, clear specs and very flat response curve with 20 and 30 liter enclosures. Should be easy to implement without too much effort.
Or, alternatively, I could fit several of these to blast to the side.
3.9'' inch Subwoofer Speaker Steel Magnetic Loudspeaker 30W for Harman For JBL | eBay
They look nice, however even these basic specs are questionable. And no specs to build an enclosure.
thanks tmuikku, this looks really interesting.
You could make a tube or cylinder sub with as small as 6.5 driver. If you use that small of a driver with a 6.5” driver in a 8” or 10” tube I would make 2 or 4 of them and place them in your corners of your room. That would help with room boost in the lower hz
And take up less space. And they would not need very much power. Use sonatube software and start building
I believe it’s called sonatube. I will check back with a link later
And take up less space. And they would not need very much power. Use sonatube software and start building
I believe it’s called sonatube. I will check back with a link later
That said, a really narrow sub could probably be used mounted on a wall, almost as a painting??
This seems like a good idea for a small apartment.
If the woofers are close to your head, you won't need much power for them to be subjectively loud - which will be good for the people in the next apartment.
I've never used a bass shaker / tactile transducer, but it might be an extra way to give the impression of epic bass without getting you evicted
A bass shaker will definitely upset your neighbors. Those things work by shaker what ever they are on or near. I had a neighbor that had two under his couch and when ever he would watch a movie it would make my dishes shake. I wanted to go up to his place and rip them out and put them up his ———.
Ah, you have some personal practical knowledge, which is more than my none.
The phrase "up to his place" might be important - e.g. I used to live on the ground floor of a small apartment complex (all brick, on a solid slab). A shaker would probably have been fine in that space.
Thank you for this interesting discussion. I did not know transducers/chakers is a thing in audio world, but now I do.
I do watch movies, but this is mainly for some nice music and I don't usually spend my time on the couch. Also this is an apartment and I would like to keep this goodness for myself. So no shakers for me.
So I was researching possibilities... And... Well, could not find an easy way to get something small below 35Hz. By small I mean box size below 15 liters.
I currently have a Jamo A3SUB.5: A 3SUB.5 | JAMO
Box volume is around 17 liters and cutoff at 45Hz.
It's okay I guess, but I would go lower.
I only need 100W or so.
I have found a nice website with a huge speaker database, which sped up my search a lot. Highly recommend it for quick spec checks.
Free subwoofer box calculator online.
So here is where I am at:
So basically... I could not find a sub that would be both non-powerful and would go to ~30Hz in a small box.
Due to my power supply, I need 2Ω. Price range below €130 or so.
Is my assumption right that in isobaric configuration I get -3dB and in dual config +3db?
So from this list, my options are:
* Tang Band W5-1138, 2 pcs in parallel. It's a small driver, would probably face a narrow side of the box. Overall volume ends up at 18L, which.. I may bite.
* Skar VVX-8V3 D4. Good price, interesting.. reviews.
* DD Audio DD506 D4 - a winner in terms of frequency response and box volume. Bit over my budget.
* Dayton DCS165-4 in isobaric configuration is another option. I will likely end up at 81dB? Usable output power from 19V likely around 40W.
* Dayton DCS205-4 would only be acceptable in isobaric configuration in my case (to get 10L volume and 2Ω).
Any advice is welcome. I am likely missing something.
I do watch movies, but this is mainly for some nice music and I don't usually spend my time on the couch. Also this is an apartment and I would like to keep this goodness for myself. So no shakers for me.
So I was researching possibilities... And... Well, could not find an easy way to get something small below 35Hz. By small I mean box size below 15 liters.
I currently have a Jamo A3SUB.5: A 3SUB.5 | JAMO
Box volume is around 17 liters and cutoff at 45Hz.
It's okay I guess, but I would go lower.
I only need 100W or so.
I have found a nice website with a huge speaker database, which sped up my search a lot. Highly recommend it for quick spec checks.
Free subwoofer box calculator online.
So here is where I am at:
So basically... I could not find a sub that would be both non-powerful and would go to ~30Hz in a small box.
Due to my power supply, I need 2Ω. Price range below €130 or so.
Is my assumption right that in isobaric configuration I get -3dB and in dual config +3db?
So from this list, my options are:
* Tang Band W5-1138, 2 pcs in parallel. It's a small driver, would probably face a narrow side of the box. Overall volume ends up at 18L, which.. I may bite.
* Skar VVX-8V3 D4. Good price, interesting.. reviews.
* DD Audio DD506 D4 - a winner in terms of frequency response and box volume. Bit over my budget.
* Dayton DCS165-4 in isobaric configuration is another option. I will likely end up at 81dB? Usable output power from 19V likely around 40W.
* Dayton DCS205-4 would only be acceptable in isobaric configuration in my case (to get 10L volume and 2Ω).
Any advice is welcome. I am likely missing something.
Cheap Reckhorn D165 should work in small sealed (or ported) enclosure.
Reckhorn Mini-Sub
Sealed and small requires power (Linkwitz transform). You can build small ported easily with the tangband or this reckhorn since the subwoofer is hidden you can put the port extend outside the enclosure
Reckhorn Mini-Sub
Sealed and small requires power (Linkwitz transform). You can build small ported easily with the tangband or this reckhorn since the subwoofer is hidden you can put the port extend outside the enclosure
Reckhorn D-165 looks nice, missed it somehow, thanks.
42Hz limit, though.
Good price also - only €38 a pop, including delivery to Germany.
Could add 4 of them at that price...
Will look in to LinkWitz transform (new to me), but so far I found this:
Maybe could be made in to a maze of some kind, like...
Do you know of any good builds?
42Hz limit, though.
Good price also - only €38 a pop, including delivery to Germany.
Could add 4 of them at that price...
Will look in to LinkWitz transform (new to me), but so far I found this:
Maybe could be made in to a maze of some kind, like...
Do you know of any good builds?
Linkwitz transform is an active circuit that can be used for tailoring the low frequency response of a subwoofer system. I think it is mostly used for extending low end response of small sealed enclosure subs but can of course work for any spraker system. Requires good driver and powerfull amp to get high spl.. ESP - The Linkwitz Transform Circuit
Reckhorn sub projects are mostly on german forums and magazines, never heard one. Actually I haven't had any subs in ten years but I am about to build some small sealed and considered the d165 as well but got something else instead (I like to shop secondhand
There is no magic trickery, there is always a tradeof somewhere. Just determine your absolute maximum enclosure size, then try to find a driver that meets your frequency response and spl requirement and be done with it
Reckhorn sub projects are mostly on german forums and magazines, never heard one. Actually I haven't had any subs in ten years but I am about to build some small sealed and considered the d165 as well but got something else instead (I like to shop secondhand
There is no magic trickery, there is always a tradeof somewhere. Just determine your absolute maximum enclosure size, then try to find a driver that meets your frequency response and spl requirement and be done with it
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At one time, the B0$3 Wave Cannon was a somewhat popular along desktops, walls, under bed, etc., woofer option with the low cutoff being a function of length, so how long [folded?] can you tolerate both in length and lowest XO point?
patent: US4628528A - Pressure wave transducing
- Google Patents
design tutorial: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/9501-acoustic-wave-canon-6.html#post1175482
GM
GM always thinking ahead of the curve... Some comments on a 2.1 that at least in my opinion help make it work, get sat speakers that do a good to great job >50Hz and cover to the sub <70Hz. I don't know your room size but keeping a mono sub within 7ft of the sats in the 2.1 I had at my last office worked spectacularly well with pretty modest $ (ok not modest according to friends but certainly modest in the relative economics of the hifi world). I used one of those Reckhorn crossovers and was very pleased. It has a fixed 24db slope between the sub and sats which can work pretty darn well. I'm sure Nelson Pass could set you up with something more spectacular if you won the lottery or have inherited wealth, but for $100 come on that Reckhorn was the ticket.
"for $100 come on that Reckhorn was the ticket."
+1. It is a great crossover to start out with and experimenting. I am still in the start up phase myself.
You can see Isobarik as a way of halving the needed volume behind the woofer inside the cabinet. But you also double the budget for woofers for the same surface area towards the room, obviously. You will not gain much space with the small woofers you are checking out. I would say you start really saving space when you are thinking 10-inches and up. If you plan for a box with 10-inch woofers that will be out of sight then a clam-shell isobaric is a strong candidate.
+1. It is a great crossover to start out with and experimenting. I am still in the start up phase myself.
You can see Isobarik as a way of halving the needed volume behind the woofer inside the cabinet. But you also double the budget for woofers for the same surface area towards the room, obviously. You will not gain much space with the small woofers you are checking out. I would say you start really saving space when you are thinking 10-inches and up. If you plan for a box with 10-inch woofers that will be out of sight then a clam-shell isobaric is a strong candidate.
I have both the 6.5 and 5.25 TB subs and they are great value for money. A bit thumpy sometimes but can go quite low when ported and have never failed to impress - size considering.
My two 6.5s are in sealed 0.5 QTC boxes and with room gain get fairly low.
I struggled to get a compact enclosure that incorporated a port that didn't chuff with a long and thin length/width. With a long and slim enclosure this would be made a lot easier if you slot ported it as the relative low height of the box would result in a more squareish port wall that could run longer without 90 degree corners with less friction and a much better SD ratio.
As in the photo I attached I struggled with the thin port aspect ratio so I had to round off all corners and fill in the corner curves with wood filler then sand until smooth. You could just squash down something like this but I am sure you already have an idea in your mind how yours will function/look.
What I am not too familiar with is the downside of super long port vents so maybe Greg might be able to fill you in there. Also, it is long and slim would you run in to standing waves at the upper end of the system bandwidth?
Following this project closely, I've always wanted to try one for under my couch!
My two 6.5s are in sealed 0.5 QTC boxes and with room gain get fairly low.
I struggled to get a compact enclosure that incorporated a port that didn't chuff with a long and thin length/width. With a long and slim enclosure this would be made a lot easier if you slot ported it as the relative low height of the box would result in a more squareish port wall that could run longer without 90 degree corners with less friction and a much better SD ratio.
As in the photo I attached I struggled with the thin port aspect ratio so I had to round off all corners and fill in the corner curves with wood filler then sand until smooth. You could just squash down something like this but I am sure you already have an idea in your mind how yours will function/look.
What I am not too familiar with is the downside of super long port vents so maybe Greg might be able to fill you in there. Also, it is long and slim would you run in to standing waves at the upper end of the system bandwidth?
Following this project closely, I've always wanted to try one for under my couch!
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