Well I know that's not true at all, but have a minute? Check out this article. (not sure if you guys saw this yet)
NwAvGuy: What We Hear
NwAvGuy: What We Hear
You 'know' it's not true, yet you do post the link.
Must be you have doubts then, no?
I think it's possible to be 'influenced'. Why not? This is why commercials are so important, because they work, and most of us don't even notice it or not a lot anyway.
That's the same reason audio sellers don't like double blind tests.
Looking forward to how this thread evolves... or explodes!
Must be you have doubts then, no?
I think it's possible to be 'influenced'. Why not? This is why commercials are so important, because they work, and most of us don't even notice it or not a lot anyway.
That's the same reason audio sellers don't like double blind tests.
Looking forward to how this thread evolves... or explodes!
Very interesting read, this battle between the two sides will probably rage forever. I don't know what it is that compels humans to so fervently defend their views in the face of mounting evidence. It happens in so many different pursuits of pleasure or need. I've always found that measuring is a definite asset when it comes to building speakers, but I so thoroughly enjoy the emotion I get when I listen to a really well made song that most of the time I judge the quality of the sound on my enjoyment of the expirience. I know for myself if it sounds good ,it is good. I feel going too deeply into the perfection of the recreation of what the song should sound like would lessen my enjoyment of it. But then again that's just my way of enjoying this great hobby. Its a good thing there are so many differing views on this subject, it helps to stimulate thought that drives this hobby forward.
All subs sound the same?
The problem is, you should not ask everyone, as everyone has always an answer. You can ask your dog "which amp sound better, bark if amp 1 is better". So we have an issue about level of accuracy, caused by many things (taste, expectation, knowledge/experience, etc etc)
This is imo a very important thing in this hobby. People should not debate, argue and learn nothing.
One important thing to solve early is what it is you are trying to achieve. What do you think is a good sound. If people cannot even answer this, forget the opinion.
The problem is, you should not ask everyone, as everyone has always an answer. You can ask your dog "which amp sound better, bark if amp 1 is better". So we have an issue about level of accuracy, caused by many things (taste, expectation, knowledge/experience, etc etc)
This is imo a very important thing in this hobby. People should not debate, argue and learn nothing.
One important thing to solve early is what it is you are trying to achieve. What do you think is a good sound. If people cannot even answer this, forget the opinion.
He doesn't say that everything sounds the same. It is typically accepted that transducers may well sound quite different, while electronic components often don't.
Which is why he should be ignored.
Advertising is quite a science. Do you know you are several times more likely to trust a stranger's advice, like here, than an official add, and several more times likely to trust a friend, even if they know nothing about what they are talking about? I am steeping off a cliff here, but you are more likely to trust the advice in a forum like this if the giver is male. There is a ton of work being done on this in social media. How to get that one tweet out there to hype your product and then get it to spread? Then there is what is known as the Opra effect.
What is usually left out in the "expert" papers is that people can hear really small differences, but they are usually not willing to pay for them. If a $115 Just Bloody Loud sub goes boom boom, that is all right with them. Everyone is not willing to pay for a very low distortion sub that costs two months rent. A very large population has never heard what deep bass sounds like for real. Stand right next to an upright being bowed. They don't know what they are hearing is wrong.
So, in both subjects, we are ill-informed at best, stupid most likely. Ain't life great.
I don't see how the rest of your post relates to your opening statement. Do you disagree with with value for money? I believe value for money is his primary point.
If I am reading a car review, you can't get away with not giving performance numbers, cornering G's, MPGs, weights and measures--then giving your opinion. I read a "test" of the Bose 901 and the "reviewer" did not post any measurements, only in audio can you do something so obviously bogus.
Measurements and blind ABX testing, after all these years the only thing to cut out the 99% of utter BS that is audio. People ask me all the time what speakers to buy for a home theater. I just tell them to look for the THX logo since it follows some form of standard then pay what they are comfortable with. Make sure the electronics can push 2 subs to allow adjustments in the future if/when required. My last tip is to not buy any speaker cables, interconnects...I have a box of them so the system can be set up. Only buy cables AFTER everything is connected/wired up so you know what sizes are needed.
Measurements and blind ABX testing, after all these years the only thing to cut out the 99% of utter BS that is audio. People ask me all the time what speakers to buy for a home theater. I just tell them to look for the THX logo since it follows some form of standard then pay what they are comfortable with. Make sure the electronics can push 2 subs to allow adjustments in the future if/when required. My last tip is to not buy any speaker cables, interconnects...I have a box of them so the system can be set up. Only buy cables AFTER everything is connected/wired up so you know what sizes are needed.
Measurements are still in the stone ages, and ABX is fraught with potential gotchas (so many that likely at least 95% could be tossed as invalidly set up), and can only tell you when something is different. It cannot tell you 2 things are the same.
dave
Really? Impulse, MLS, ceptrum, multitone, arbitrary function, ETC, complex impedance, -180dB noise floors (that's 100,000-1,000,000 times lower than ear detection), nonlinear B/L, high resolution differencing... all are "stone age"? Really?
I am going to memorize these words as I believe them to be spot on. I wish he had gone on to mention room modes and why the bass might also change when even a few inches out.
Quote:
Comb Filtering – This is a problem with speakers and it’s likely the source of some audiophile myths. Ethan demonstrates how even changing your listening position (where your ears are in the 3D space of the room) by a few inches can create very audible changes in the high frequency response. Let’s say you sit down to listen, then get up and swap out a cable and sit down again, but this time you’re leaning further back. You may well hear differences but it’s not the cable. It’s the nature of the room acoustics and comb filtering. This is in addition to all the other reasons you might hear differences unrelated to the cable.
Quote:
Comb Filtering – This is a problem with speakers and it’s likely the source of some audiophile myths. Ethan demonstrates how even changing your listening position (where your ears are in the 3D space of the room) by a few inches can create very audible changes in the high frequency response. Let’s say you sit down to listen, then get up and swap out a cable and sit down again, but this time you’re leaning further back. You may well hear differences but it’s not the cable. It’s the nature of the room acoustics and comb filtering. This is in addition to all the other reasons you might hear differences unrelated to the cable.
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