eduard,
Arthur was the first German philosopher who freed his thinking from the yoke of religious influence. Like Hiraga, he did not make many erroneous assumptions. However, religion is not about truth.
Resistance serves as a measure of efficiency, being a nuisance, but resistance has a crucial importance in signal handling.
Arthur was the first German philosopher who freed his thinking from the yoke of religious influence. Like Hiraga, he did not make many erroneous assumptions. However, religion is not about truth.
Resistance serves as a measure of efficiency, being a nuisance, but resistance has a crucial importance in signal handling.
Hello,
But the people going for bigger than big transformers are doing things the wrong way because the rest of the power supply doesnt like a transformer that can deliver enormous current ( and with capacitor input it will be in a pulsating mode).
I remember one of Hiraga tube design with solid state diodes had a small resistor in series going from the rectifier to the first cap just to minimize the bad effects caused by these pulses.
Comparing a 2 ohm resistor RC network with a 2 ohm dc resistance choke will show the advantage of the choke.
The French compared heaps of power supplies and somehow a simple CLC or CRC sometimes with more stages added wouldnt turn out to give the best specs but during listening test they were preferred.
We will see, greeetings, eduard
But the people going for bigger than big transformers are doing things the wrong way because the rest of the power supply doesnt like a transformer that can deliver enormous current ( and with capacitor input it will be in a pulsating mode).
I remember one of Hiraga tube design with solid state diodes had a small resistor in series going from the rectifier to the first cap just to minimize the bad effects caused by these pulses.
Comparing a 2 ohm resistor RC network with a 2 ohm dc resistance choke will show the advantage of the choke.
The French compared heaps of power supplies and somehow a simple CLC or CRC sometimes with more stages added wouldnt turn out to give the best specs but during listening test they were preferred.
We will see, greeetings, eduard
I agree, LC after rectifier is probably best choice, but might be expensive and bulky so nobody bothers..
Hello,
To put things into perspective a photo of a power supply without the two 175Va transformers.
It will be a LCRC supply. It doesnt show the resistors but you can grasp the idea.
Reading the French publications about le monstre and its bigger brothers you will know that all of the use Cosmos pot for bias, shinkoh resistors and many times you see indentical transistors too..Even the basic versions of these circuits had big power supplies compared to the gear available in audio brothels. The pimped versions just had a bigger supply. Seldomly the transformer but usually the quaility and number of the caps. And going from crc to clc. Most of the basic power supplies had 6 caps in total. Those days the best return on investment would be changing it from crc to clc. If remember well the 200mH was about the same price as one cap.
Nowadays mH is expensive compared to uF so to say.
The Brazilian monstre main supply parts :
2 split bobbin transformer to make one 350 VA transformer 95 euro
2 bridge rectfiers 20 euro
2 input chokes ( highest number of mH with enough current) 240
Total of 6 caps 120
Chokes could be a little cheaper so 180 minimum but being choke input extra mH is a big advantage.
Spending more on the transformer by cutting down expenses on the other parts is a no go for me.
Downsizing the choke to one having 100 mH instead of 700mH and spending the savings to get 8 instead of 6 caps ? I dont know. I woudnt.
Of course there are very few people using these big chokes. Telling your audio friends you have bought a 2000VA toriod makes people worship you but a pair of chokes.
Greetings,Eduard
To put things into perspective a photo of a power supply without the two 175Va transformers.
It will be a LCRC supply. It doesnt show the resistors but you can grasp the idea.
Reading the French publications about le monstre and its bigger brothers you will know that all of the use Cosmos pot for bias, shinkoh resistors and many times you see indentical transistors too..Even the basic versions of these circuits had big power supplies compared to the gear available in audio brothels. The pimped versions just had a bigger supply. Seldomly the transformer but usually the quaility and number of the caps. And going from crc to clc. Most of the basic power supplies had 6 caps in total. Those days the best return on investment would be changing it from crc to clc. If remember well the 200mH was about the same price as one cap.
Nowadays mH is expensive compared to uF so to say.
The Brazilian monstre main supply parts :
2 split bobbin transformer to make one 350 VA transformer 95 euro
2 bridge rectfiers 20 euro
2 input chokes ( highest number of mH with enough current) 240
Total of 6 caps 120
Chokes could be a little cheaper so 180 minimum but being choke input extra mH is a big advantage.
Spending more on the transformer by cutting down expenses on the other parts is a no go for me.
Downsizing the choke to one having 100 mH instead of 700mH and spending the savings to get 8 instead of 6 caps ? I dont know. I woudnt.
Of course there are very few people using these big chokes. Telling your audio friends you have bought a 2000VA toriod makes people worship you but a pair of chokes.
Greetings,Eduard
Attachments
Toroidal transformers are highly efficient, have high magnetic permeability, high saturation flux density, producing high magnetizing currents and plenty of high order harmonics, avoid them like the coronavirus.
Diodes are nasty devices. Insert resistors next to the rectifiers.
Along with the choke, use multiple series resistors to prolong the charge / discharge period of the capacitors (and to reduce distortion).
Diodes are nasty devices. Insert resistors next to the rectifiers.
Along with the choke, use multiple series resistors to prolong the charge / discharge period of the capacitors (and to reduce distortion).
Hello,
Today i asked my Brazilian friend to start asking questions here about his new to build power supply so the information will be available to other members too.
After reading the official articles by Jean Hiraga again it is absolutely clear that both le monstre and the 20 and 30 watt Hiraga all need serious attention and money as well to make them work far better than many other diy amps. OF COURSE many ideas can be used in Nelson Pass circuits ( as proven by a Vietnamese friend).
A decent power supply for the French designs will be more expensive than the circuit itself.
For this le monstre we went for a choke input which is not to difficult because the current being drawn is rather small compared to the 20 and 30 watt. The dc supply is also lower which reduces the necessary number of mH to achieve choke input.
For a le monstre with choke input the cost of the right transformer can be below 100$
The chokes will take some investment. But they have infinite lifetime.
The caps will be around the price of the transformer.
Greetings,Eduard
Today i asked my Brazilian friend to start asking questions here about his new to build power supply so the information will be available to other members too.
After reading the official articles by Jean Hiraga again it is absolutely clear that both le monstre and the 20 and 30 watt Hiraga all need serious attention and money as well to make them work far better than many other diy amps. OF COURSE many ideas can be used in Nelson Pass circuits ( as proven by a Vietnamese friend).
A decent power supply for the French designs will be more expensive than the circuit itself.
For this le monstre we went for a choke input which is not to difficult because the current being drawn is rather small compared to the 20 and 30 watt. The dc supply is also lower which reduces the necessary number of mH to achieve choke input.
For a le monstre with choke input the cost of the right transformer can be below 100$
The chokes will take some investment. But they have infinite lifetime.
The caps will be around the price of the transformer.
Greetings,Eduard
Hello,
As one can see after explaining that many of the circuits coming from Jean Hiraga and his entourage need a serious power supply many people going into hibernation or denial until the post have been followed by some post that will propagate power supplies that will surely be as good ( and that one could change into a real SOTA supply by adding a double VA toriod) The French NEVER used them for a reason.
Greetings, Eduard
As one can see after explaining that many of the circuits coming from Jean Hiraga and his entourage need a serious power supply many people going into hibernation or denial until the post have been followed by some post that will propagate power supplies that will surely be as good ( and that one could change into a real SOTA supply by adding a double VA toriod) The French NEVER used them for a reason.
Greetings, Eduard
Dual Choke Input Power Supply
Hello,
Has anyone here built a power supply with 2 transformers?
I will start to build a Hiraga Le Monstre using a choke input ps with 2 transformers and 2 rectifiers as well, and any help is welcome.
Attached is an old Hiraga PS picture, but besides not using chokes, it only has 1 transformer; and I would like to know from you what should be the connection differences when using 2 tarnsformers / rectifiers.
Also, what should be the best gnd point for all connections? Could it be the center of the copper bar as in the drawing?
Tks!
Nilton
Hello,
Has anyone here built a power supply with 2 transformers?
I will start to build a Hiraga Le Monstre using a choke input ps with 2 transformers and 2 rectifiers as well, and any help is welcome.
Attached is an old Hiraga PS picture, but besides not using chokes, it only has 1 transformer; and I would like to know from you what should be the connection differences when using 2 tarnsformers / rectifiers.
Also, what should be the best gnd point for all connections? Could it be the center of the copper bar as in the drawing?
Tks!
Nilton
Hello Nilton,
You should make a drawing , then take a photo so people can open it easily. AND add their ideas with paint and upload it again
The connecting of the last 4 caps should be done like this so the R coming from the first cap MUST be connectecd to the center of the bar and the supply wire going to the circuits should also depart from there.
My friend who uses a CLC with the same choke, also separate winding and two rectifiers did connect the rectifier and one terminal of the input cap each with it owns wire to the center of the bar connecting the 4 last caps. He loves the sound.
BUT he is using a capacitor input so the transformer, rectifier and first cap have to deal with large pulsating currents ( that is why the rectfier gets hot even being attach to a rather large piece of alu! It can take the heat. BUT it shows the first 3 elements in the power supply have a heavy job. SO after reading some extra info i told him to see these parts as a trio that needs SHORT connection so make the GND there and not having long wires with big current going to the longest bar. All the thing needed a gnd belonging to the circuits should be connected to the center of the bar. AND from there there will be one thick wire going through the point where the two input caps are '' grounded ''
Your rectifier could be attached directly to the transformer secundaire connection with a little heatsink on its back. BUT because of the choke input it wont get hot.
Greetings, eduard
You should make a drawing , then take a photo so people can open it easily. AND add their ideas with paint and upload it again
The connecting of the last 4 caps should be done like this so the R coming from the first cap MUST be connectecd to the center of the bar and the supply wire going to the circuits should also depart from there.
My friend who uses a CLC with the same choke, also separate winding and two rectifiers did connect the rectifier and one terminal of the input cap each with it owns wire to the center of the bar connecting the 4 last caps. He loves the sound.
BUT he is using a capacitor input so the transformer, rectifier and first cap have to deal with large pulsating currents ( that is why the rectfier gets hot even being attach to a rather large piece of alu! It can take the heat. BUT it shows the first 3 elements in the power supply have a heavy job. SO after reading some extra info i told him to see these parts as a trio that needs SHORT connection so make the GND there and not having long wires with big current going to the longest bar. All the thing needed a gnd belonging to the circuits should be connected to the center of the bar. AND from there there will be one thick wire going through the point where the two input caps are '' grounded ''
Your rectifier could be attached directly to the transformer secundaire connection with a little heatsink on its back. BUT because of the choke input it wont get hot.
Greetings, eduard
additional info
Hello,
As you can see there is a load of info to be found on the internet.
But you have to filter the right info.
Not many people tell you not to use big toriods. Rod Coleman a famous member here does because most of them dont stop any garbage coming in from your wall outlet even when using hospital grade connectors.
A 1000VA toriod will like using a Gucci backpack in middle of the Amazon.
The other tourists will be impressed by the Gucci tag but once you start meeting people who actually live there and dont know Gucci, will have fun when the zippers start malfunctioning.
The Hiraga designs depend a lot on how they are built and on the quality of the parts. Concerning the parts there are some solutions that can give good results.
The Shinko resistors were part of the design so to say. The French already compared resistors before this site was born. Of course back then there were already people who considered the Shinko at 1,2 $ a piece way to expensive and went for a cheaper ones. Not that much cheaper but if you never heard a Hiraga with shinkoh and you wouldnt have to spend 38 $ on resistors for a complete amp but just 5 $ and be happy ever after??
Chances pretty small that you will be able to hear two Hiraga amp with just other brand resistor as difference.
Nowadays there seem to be more resistors available nice for audio. Back then i think the Shinko was not developed as an audio resistor i was just discovered by some Japanese diy builders.
BUT first let us optimize the power supply.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s the attachment deals with a single rail supply for a tube amp but the ideas are the same
Hello,
As you can see there is a load of info to be found on the internet.
But you have to filter the right info.
Not many people tell you not to use big toriods. Rod Coleman a famous member here does because most of them dont stop any garbage coming in from your wall outlet even when using hospital grade connectors.
A 1000VA toriod will like using a Gucci backpack in middle of the Amazon.
The other tourists will be impressed by the Gucci tag but once you start meeting people who actually live there and dont know Gucci, will have fun when the zippers start malfunctioning.
The Hiraga designs depend a lot on how they are built and on the quality of the parts. Concerning the parts there are some solutions that can give good results.
The Shinko resistors were part of the design so to say. The French already compared resistors before this site was born. Of course back then there were already people who considered the Shinko at 1,2 $ a piece way to expensive and went for a cheaper ones. Not that much cheaper but if you never heard a Hiraga with shinkoh and you wouldnt have to spend 38 $ on resistors for a complete amp but just 5 $ and be happy ever after??
Chances pretty small that you will be able to hear two Hiraga amp with just other brand resistor as difference.
Nowadays there seem to be more resistors available nice for audio. Back then i think the Shinko was not developed as an audio resistor i was just discovered by some Japanese diy builders.
BUT first let us optimize the power supply.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s the attachment deals with a single rail supply for a tube amp but the ideas are the same
Attachments
Hello,
I was asked to connect the LL2771 choke.
Because of the hight current the two windings should be connected in parallel.
The correct and easiest way to this is using two seperate wires for each windings. Usually i will use a solid core wire from a an old loudspeaker crossover having about the same diameter as the Lundahl wire used in the Lundahl.
The two yellow wires coming from the rectifier terminal and the two blue ones going to the first cap.
Of course with CLC the two yellow wires come from plus terminal first cap and will leave with two blue wires to the plus terminal of the last caps.
OF course on the negative part of the power supply the negative terminals are interconnected by means of the choke.
Greetings, Eduard
I was asked to connect the LL2771 choke.
Because of the hight current the two windings should be connected in parallel.
The correct and easiest way to this is using two seperate wires for each windings. Usually i will use a solid core wire from a an old loudspeaker crossover having about the same diameter as the Lundahl wire used in the Lundahl.
The two yellow wires coming from the rectifier terminal and the two blue ones going to the first cap.
Of course with CLC the two yellow wires come from plus terminal first cap and will leave with two blue wires to the plus terminal of the last caps.
OF course on the negative part of the power supply the negative terminals are interconnected by means of the choke.
Greetings, Eduard
Attachments
Hiraga understood the importance of power supply quality. All amplifiers benefit from a decent power supply.
Of course, you can build monoblocks, doubling everything, will need four (Lundahl) chokes. Also, (especially big) electrolytic capacitors have a small operating frequency range, extend it by ,say, four or eight 100uF polypropylene film types while you’re at it.
Of course, you can build monoblocks, doubling everything, will need four (Lundahl) chokes. Also, (especially big) electrolytic capacitors have a small operating frequency range, extend it by ,say, four or eight 100uF polypropylene film types while you’re at it.
It's not true, I've had a crisis in Croatia for the last 30 years and I'm still working on DIY amplifiers.
Young people are no longer interested in self-construction, I think that is the main reason.
I'm still looking at how to improve my Le Monstre. Maybe the regulators get some more improvements and with the new transformer I might raise the voltage above +/- 20V.
Unfortunately I didn't make the original version, but this one at +/- 19V sounds great. https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/5462-hiraga-le-monstre-183.html#post6232063
Hello,
For the once not yet convinced lol
PI filter, Resistor Choke Oscilloscope Demo - YouTube
Greetings, Eduard
For the once not yet convinced lol
PI filter, Resistor Choke Oscilloscope Demo - YouTube
Greetings, Eduard
I have got PCBs for this Amp from Jims Audio with Kubota regulator. I need to improve my hiraga with a proper Capacitance Bank and a proper Power supply.
I will be making a CRC power supply. I have 1,50,000 uf / 50 V capacitors x 8 Nos. After 1st cap I have added a 0.5 ohm resistor (as seen in photo) any suggestions for resistor value is welcomed. I don't know how will it perform but for me it will be impossible to get the chokes hence going with crc supply.
