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Old 17th February 2012, 12:04 PM   #181
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Default schematic on page 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontoaba View Post
May be this one is better than old version of non feedback pioneer's, 0.1V drop voltage for normally 1V drop without it, no feedback (input compared FB).

Found it at AR D400 and may be solution I don't really know for this. I search for any patents and negative.
Indeed, the voltage difference between input and output is lower, but the THD, according to my sim, has increased four times. Where did you get this piece of xxxx from? Is this design from Acoustic Research? Hardly to believe.

Cheers,
E.
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Old 18th February 2012, 01:38 PM   #182
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May be not the first seen at AR D400 and may be followed by soulution 710, no, not Accoustic Research, but Audio Research D200-400, $5K amp, and soulution 700/710, $45K amp. Both no feedback at OPS.

It need to be tuned for each OPS type, after tuning it still has minor load dependent and litle thermal dependent (that could be coupled) characteristics, but major crossover distortion is canceled.

Here for smoother canceling with more diode arrangement.
5ppm @10kHz
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Old 18th February 2012, 01:50 PM   #183
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How much THD10k in case of a different load, for example 4 or 16 Ohms?
Also, how much distortion of the OPS alone (i.e. in isolation)?
(BTW, of course Audio Research)

Cheers,
E.
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Old 18th February 2012, 02:29 PM   #184
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10kHz
9ppm@30ohm
6ppm@20ohm
4ppm@16ohm
5ppm@12ohm (I do tune it here)
8ppm@10ohm
15ppm@8ohm
20ppm@6ohm
25ppm@5ohm
30ppm@4ohm

1kHz
9ppm@30ohm
6ppm@20ohm
4ppm@16ohm
5ppm@12ohm
8ppm@10ohm
10ppm@8ohm
17ppm@6ohm
20ppm@5ohm
25ppm@4ohm

THD OPS alone is ~1/30 as 30dB NFB applied. 0.013% @12ohm
It need to be enriched like what soulution do, high bias, but I still used 240mA. It also doesn't need to be enriched if drop EC (like hawksford's) is applied.
I don't know what soulution do there, but they get very low THD without feedback, my sims still 30dB NFB.

Last edited by ontoaba; 18th February 2012 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 18th February 2012, 08:14 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmond Stuart View Post
Most likely the PA0016 IC is based on this patent: Push-pull amplifier
However, this patent contains a serious error: the connection between node 'P' and 'out' gives an enormous amount of distortion. This is because it violates the 'crosswise connection rule'. Why does Pioneer apply for such a patent? To mislead the competitors?

In the meantime I've tried to reverse-engineer this chip, see 2nd picture. This one does a reasonable job.
(notice the multiplier m=7 !)

Cheers,
E.

edit: @ homemodder, our posts just crossed.
the model given Pioneer A-77X I replaced PA0016 in felu following:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 20th February 2012, 11:35 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontoaba View Post
[...]
THD OPS alone is ~1/30 as 30dB NFB applied. 0.013% @12ohm
It need to be enriched like what solution do, high bias, but I still used 240mA. It also doesn't need to be enriched if drop EC (like hawksford's) is applied.
I don't know what solution do there, but they get very low THD without feedback, my sims still 30dB NFB.
I got a much higher distortion. Would you be so kind to give me the models, please?

Cheers,
E.
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Old 21st February 2012, 03:15 AM   #187
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I am using all original models from TI7.
Here is the simulation files, of two not enriched and enriched. (it is rar, but can't upload so I just change the extension to .zip)

Simulator is TINA7, free downloadable from texas instrument site. but now there is different version that only for educational.
Here for ver7, in the past it is free from TI site as starter version: tina-ti_version_7-0_program_installation-use_for_initial_installation-g.exe - 4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download
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Old 21st February 2012, 12:35 PM   #188
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Default AR D400

Hi Ontoaba,

Thanks for the files. However, I've tried to extract the models (in order to use them with MicroCap), but failed. So I downloaded them from the web (generated by MODPEX).

I got almost the same DC currents, though THD figures were not encouraging. With several loads from 4 to 32 Ohms, in all cases the distortion gets worse when the error cancellation circuit is enabled.
Below some pics:
1. Schematic, Vout = 10V, f = 1kHz, RL = 12 Ohms
2. Some signals with cancellation circuit disabled. THD = 0.022%
3. Some signals with cancellation circuit enabled. THD = 0.134%
Blue = Vout
Red = emitter current output devices.
Black = Residual.

Cheers,
E.
Attached Images
File Type: png ARD2-sch.png (27.1 KB, 336 views)
File Type: png ARD2-No-Comp.png (11.3 KB, 321 views)
File Type: png ARD2-comp.png (12.3 KB, 298 views)
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Last edited by Edmond Stuart; 21st February 2012 at 12:54 PM. Reason: load = loads
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Old 24th February 2012, 01:00 PM   #189
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Smile models

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontoaba View Post
I am using all original models ...[/url]
Hi Ontoaba
please show your IRF540/9540 models, if you can
thank you in advance!
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regards, Pawel
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Old 24th February 2012, 02:15 PM   #190
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Inverting seems possible too, but this example has problems.
Poor bandwidth, gain, linearity, DC offset, and several diodes
needed for latch-up protection omitted for sake of clarity.

But maybe it a starting place for someone else to figure a
more workable solution. Or not...

I submit the concept for entertainment value only.
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