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Old 7th November 2013, 07:49 AM   #1
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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Default Glue for wire stators

Hi there , im trying to glue my PVC insultated wires on a HPL frame.

i used 2 component epoxy glue, after 10 hours drying at room temp. it sticks well to the HPL, but all the wires just come lose. is there another glue i need to use? its pretty anoying caus i cant use the wires anymore nor the frame.
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Old 7th November 2013, 11:46 AM   #2
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrineX View Post
Hi there , im trying to glue my PVC insultated wires on a HPL frame.

i used 2 component epoxy glue, after 10 hours drying at room temp. it sticks well to the HPL, but all the wires just come lose. is there another glue i need to use? its pretty anoying caus i cant use the wires anymore nor the frame.
Hi,

What is the gluing technique that you are using to bond wires? From my experience slow curing epoxy encapsulates wires very well and gives a strong bond. That's assuming glue is applied on top of wires via syringe and is allowed so sag.
Maybe HPL aborbs most of epoxy leaving a starved joint?
Another glue that worked very well out of my many experiments is PVA - and panels which were build using it 5 years ago still work without a single loose wire. Different grades of PVA can give somewhat different results in terms of adhesion strength.
Take your time and do sufficient amount of experiments before final assembly.

Regards,
Lukas.
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Old 7th November 2013, 02:21 PM   #3
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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yeah i just bought PU 2 component contruction glue, some dutch guy that made DIy esl used it with HPL so i give i a try, pretty expensive i must ad although its almost 800 grams so it will last some time as well. i just glued a few wires on HPL 2 pieces of HPL together and a batch of 8 wires under tension in the rig, will post the results tomorow , hope it finally stays where it belongs
funny part is its ment for wood, but it can glue wood to most other opbjects so.



Lukas the PVA glue is'nt that water based glue >? for wood and paper and stuff ? if that would work that would be way cheaper and also i dont have to mix the 2 components

thanks for the reply Lukas!
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Old 7th November 2013, 03:19 PM   #4
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrineX View Post
yeah i just bought PU 2 component contruction glue, some dutch guy that made DIy esl used it with HPL so i give i a try, pretty expensive i must ad although its almost 800 grams so it will last some time as well. i just glued a few wires on HPL 2 pieces of HPL together and a batch of 8 wires under tension in the rig, will post the results tomorow , hope it finally stays where it belongs
funny part is its ment for wood, but it can glue wood to most other opbjects so.



Lukas the PVA glue is'nt that water based glue >? for wood and paper and stuff ? if that would work that would be way cheaper and also i dont have to mix the 2 components

thanks for the reply Lukas!
Hi,

Yeah, that's the same white water-based glue for wood. There are different grades of it, some are more resistant to moisture than others. Look for one which has most resistance to water you can find and not too thin running. Later you can dilute it to right viscosity with water. Also there are some grades with hardeners which I have not tested but those might be even better.
I used "class D3" PVA glue which seems to work well.
There was an accident when a heavy tool dropped onto panel on outside. It has bent several wires and stretched copper core considerably. However PVC insulation survived and the glue didn't let it go! That was kind of surprise to me.
Good luck and be sure to test several times before final gluing procedure.

By the way, any pics?

Lukas.

Last edited by Bazukaz; 7th November 2013 at 03:35 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 7th November 2013, 03:19 PM   #5
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Don't you just hate it when you spot a spelling mistake in your thread and can't change it !!!!
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Old 7th November 2013, 04:30 PM   #6
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If you are gluing to the the composite side of the HPL then you may need some sort of primer coating.
Maybe some thing like a polyurethane or varnish of some sort as the stuff is composed of pulverized paper much like MDF.

Just like sticky tapes won't hold to plywood very well or at all.

I recently have a project were I need to use some double side tape to stick some appliance rollers to a plywood base for my stacked washer and dryer.

But I know from past experience that I will need to coat the wood with something before the tape will stick properly.

I have had similar instances with epoxy on some materials as well, such as on composite press board (particleboard), the kind that is made out of sawdust.

As mentioned a PVA glue may work well as a primer than a oil based polyurethane will as the oil's in it may hender the epoxies adhesion ablility until it cures out, and, that can take a long time to do.

FWIW

jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 7th November 2013 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 7th November 2013, 09:27 PM   #7
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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Thanks all!!! . i will will try the normal wood glue as well, theres 2 diferent versions 1 for outdoors and one only for indoor. i probably try the oudoor one component version.
The 2 component stuff i got now is also for wood. but i mixing the 2 components is verry anoying and waiting for 48 hours is also not really my thing
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Old 7th November 2013, 09:30 PM   #8
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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damned ,,

Houtlijm Extra Producten - Bison

this is the wood glue you used its like 6 times cheaper haha

theres also a quicker version but its classified as D2 indoor only. so im not sure that one works to. it will dry in 10 minutes wich sounds like music in my ears. might try it i can always use it for wood if it fails
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Old 8th November 2013, 05:07 PM   #9
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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some more failures today. the expensive 2 component version does not hold well enough on the wires.... also bought a wood glue version wich should be hardened in 30 minutes, but after an hour it just lets go when i get it out of the stretcher.

i tried some Hot glue now, and this might be the stuff im looking for, it fills gaps easy and adhesive to the pvc much better then all the other products.

only anoying thing is ofcourse the extreme fast setting time. its nice to glue fast but this is insane. thank god i just can get the paint burner and reheat the glue.

i will make some pictures when i got the procedure right. for now i got a small panel playing, but the big ones have more supports hence more glueing hence more hard time with the stting time of the hot glue

The best thing would be to use the hot glue at bottom and top, it takes all the force, then somehow glue the rest of the supports. i want a frame to leave the stretching jig as fast as possible.
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Old 8th November 2013, 11:21 PM   #10
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Jim Strickland of Acoustat did not glue his stator wires into place he encapsulated them. The frames are styrene so he simply made a thick syrup of styrene plastic and solvent. The off gas is not good and you need to do this out of doors. but you might give that a try. Hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James.
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