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Old 29th April 2013, 04:31 AM   #11
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Nice work! Congratulations!
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Old 29th April 2013, 05:00 AM   #12
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

I think I remember a 80s or 90s patent (probabely even earlier as it seems that everything regarding ESLs had been invented already in the first 5minutes since the first thought on that matter was written down) the concept of a high impedance and varying high impedance stator was described.
Using todays printing technology one might think of printing a high-ohmic ink onto a punched, routed or cast insulator. An idea I'm rolling in my head for a couple of years now is a stator manufactured completely from clear transparent materials. Transparent inks are offered in various resistance ranges. So all one needs to design the 'invisible' ESL is there

jauu
Calvin

Ps. just in case someone thinks he could patent this idea like Sanders got an patent on an PCB stator in 2005 that Beveridge had done decades earlier already ..... No! Its open source now

Pps. Stephen, could never get Your script running on my pc.
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Old 29th April 2013, 07:51 AM   #13
golfnut is offline golfnut  New Zealand
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esltransformer: the nominal capacitance of the panels is about 620 pF. The lacquer coating was put on afterwards, so finished capacitance is greater, maybe 700 pF. The capacitance of the smallest segment at the beginning of the transmission line is about 20 pF – the larger segments at the end of the transmission line are about 3 times that.

Bolserst: Thanks for posting the links.

Calvin: Yes, there is a patent, I can’t remember whose, that describes a conductive stator, effectively with the transmission line built in. From what I recall, the author did not envisage a line source. I have looked into the possibility and there are conductive plastic sheets available that would do the job, including acrylic. The problem is that they are intended for antistatic applications and the uniformity of resistance is not that good – may be good enough though.
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Old 29th April 2013, 04:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
Stephen, could never get Your script running on my pc.
Hmmm, I'm not sure why you would be having problems with the Line source Excel spreadsheet.
The are no unusual requirements to run it.
Feel free to contact me via email or PM to sort it out.

I know you had problems with the near/intermediate/field field Excel spreadsheet because it required the Analysis ToolPak be loaded and you did not have the installation CD.
Segmented Wire Stator ESL simulator (esl_seg_ui)

link to the near/intermediate/field field Excel spreadsheet:
Segmented Wire Stator ESL simulator (esl_seg_ui)


For those curious about golfnut's "sausage-like" transformers, here is a pictorial representation of the stacked toroid concept that Alexberg posted in another thread:
Making an electrostatic headphone driver.
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File Type: jpg Stacked_toroids_Alexberg.jpg (92.3 KB, 205 views)
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Old 29th April 2013, 08:27 PM   #15
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Thanks Calvin!!!

Didn't get no sleep again brainstorming about those Clear ESL's again!!!!!

May be some Licron can be used for a resistive stator design.

jer
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Old 30th April 2013, 05:18 AM   #16
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

I rather thought of pure clear acrylics with a printed-on layer of conductive transparent ink and sealed with an transparent insulative coating/laquer. The membrane could be transparent as well as the membrane coating. The stators could be routed from acrylic sheets and heat treated after to get the matted surfaces clear again and the sharp edges rounded, or it may even be better cast into a mould, thereby allowing to include spacers and stiffening ribs at the same. The conductive ink may be printed on with standard inkjet printer technology. There are several different formulations over a certain ohmic range. Lowohmic inks may be used as replacement for cabling and copper charge ring. A special transparent laquer, commonly used for insulating and sealing PCBs may be used as insulative layer also. It may be possible to replace the insulative coating by a second cast of acrylics, thereby sealing the conductive areas completely within the stator structure.
If not cast into the stator structure, 3M's clear transparent tapes may be used as spacers. The mounting frame may of course be made from standard acrylic material again. So all is there ... the idea, the materials an the technologies. The only thing I'm still missing ...... and that's the point You Gerald my friend, come into play, are transparent toroids

jauu
Calvin

Last edited by Calvin; 30th April 2013 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 30th April 2013, 07:44 AM   #17
golfnut is offline golfnut  New Zealand
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Hi Calvin

I wouldn't use a router to cut the acrylic, laser cutting is much faster and leaves a rounded edge. Screen printed inks sounds good though - how would you make the connections to the resistors?
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Old 30th April 2013, 10:56 AM   #18
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Oh my, Calvin!!
Now my head is a spinnin'!!!!

You know my method would be to completely eliminate the toroid's all together with a direct drive system!!!
Using some sort of transparent Vaccum tube or maybe a larger planar transparent semiconductor FET !!!!

jer
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Old 30th April 2013, 11:08 AM   #19
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Golfnut, The connections can be quite easily made!

Since the material is basically painted on you can just paint right over a few connecting foil strips where ever a connection is needed as I have done here,

ESL Diaphragm coating

Or you can use a simple pressure contact method as well.
I used both techniques in that particular design to connect to the diaphragm and can be used in the stator construction as well.

jer
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Old 1st May 2013, 02:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnut View Post
Hi Calvin

I wouldn't use a router to cut the acrylic, laser cutting is much faster and leaves a rounded edge. Screen printed inks sounds good though - how would you make the connections to the resistors?
I would not use laser on acrylic: it creates extreme stress at the edges and one have to anneal the whole thing and still you'll get the whole bunch of whisker kinda cracks. Proper router bit would yield any kind of edge you like.
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