Its cool to hear that Mr. Pass is and has been using ANs. I really think that your input this summer/fall on the OB with ANs will give the DIY community a reason to try out the ANs. They have been kind of shunned without really saying it on DIY, I think. Weird since they sound so nice. One of the great things is the frequency/SPL curve seems accurate. I have no equipment to measure with, but this is not a shouty speaker and the highs dont get annoying like with my Fostex. I have learned to love the Fostex, but there was no acquiring a taste for the ANs... they just sounded great from the start. If there is some break in period I cant wait to hear them after 100 hours. Must be fantastic!
I turned them up so loud today that I was getting nervous about blowing or melting something. NO distortion. Everything was still clear and well represented and separated from the other signals/music/instruments, etc. I had to turn it down to give my ears a break. Probably will never listen that loud again, but it blew my mind that they could play that loudly without belching.
Uriah
Roscoe, we were posting at the same minute
Yeah I love them. Never heard anything this good in my house or friends or listening room except for a pair of Thiels back in the late 80's. My only, and I mean ONLY, complaint is that the imaging is not on par with the sound. The imaging is decent, but not holographic I have only had them playing a half day and not moved them around much, so we will see. I had to put them on some of my daughters cardboard building blocks to get them about 5" higher. Will be building two bases for them to sit on. Considering using the bases for amp enclosures as well. They sound better when the center of the speaker is exactly at ear level. The sweet spot, however, is not small. Very nice to hear from anywhere in the basement.
Thanks for the comment on the build. I think the top and bottom being a bit larger looks nice. Building some speaker covers tonight after a trip to Joann Fabrics today. They had some fake birdhouses for sale for a buck a piece. Thinking of putting a tweeter in each LOL just as a joke and maybe stick them on the computer desk or something.
I turned them up so loud today that I was getting nervous about blowing or melting something. NO distortion. Everything was still clear and well represented and separated from the other signals/music/instruments, etc. I had to turn it down to give my ears a break. Probably will never listen that loud again, but it blew my mind that they could play that loudly without belching.
Uriah
Roscoe, we were posting at the same minute
Yeah I love them. Never heard anything this good in my house or friends or listening room except for a pair of Thiels back in the late 80's. My only, and I mean ONLY, complaint is that the imaging is not on par with the sound. The imaging is decent, but not holographic I have only had them playing a half day and not moved them around much, so we will see. I had to put them on some of my daughters cardboard building blocks to get them about 5" higher. Will be building two bases for them to sit on. Considering using the bases for amp enclosures as well. They sound better when the center of the speaker is exactly at ear level. The sweet spot, however, is not small. Very nice to hear from anywhere in the basement. Thanks for the comment on the build. I think the top and bottom being a bit larger looks nice. Building some speaker covers tonight after a trip to Joann Fabrics today. They had some fake birdhouses for sale for a buck a piece. Thinking of putting a tweeter in each LOL just as a joke and maybe stick them on the computer desk or something.
This is fantastic!
I have been mulling over the design of my "last" rig for at least a year. The reason I have not really begun is the complete lack of availability for some of the key components. Over this time I had countless hours sitting at the computer because currently, it is the only source of music I have. I have maintained my core design goals, but a few compenents changed because of the release of a few new products to the DIY world.
First, the DAC will now be a Twisted Pear Buffalo DAC and newly chosen Pass D1 I/V. The signal that was to be balanced is now SE to simplify things and to save cash for some of the upgrades. I am confident it will still sound better than anything I have heard before. I also think I will prefer the SE anyway. The D1 sends the signal to the only original choice, an Aikido preamp. However, it will now be a 24V headphone amp too. This will save me huge coin over a balanced 6SN7 Aikido with much more costly parts. The reports are that they sound wonderful for both duties. I have since aquired a NOS set of four Telefunken ECC86 ready to rock.
That leaves the only decisions to be amps(bi-amp), crossover and speakers. Now at the start I was building the system around Hypex amps and CSS FR125SR full rangers and CSS SDX7 bass units in a TL for the bass and OB for the FR. Crossover was to be a Marchand XM44. Now, I am really looking for a driver and enclosure I can afford to use Mr. Pass's First Watt current amps with a OB FR and TL sub. I was leaning toward trying the original speaker design(86db eff.) with the First Watt anyway but I feared that they would be underpowerd. I also am worried that a 4" driver with and 86db efficiency might not realy be that dynamic. I mean, you need square footage to move air. The answer is that I needed a high efficiency FR, but I still feared I was going to have to settle. Every great sounding small FR was either a Lowther that I can not afford, or some gigantic horn I will never have room for. Again, I fall back on the addition of stereo subs to cover the low end and free up the FR.
The answer is very simple only if these big Audio Nirvana drivers impress Mr. Pass and others. Then the remaining choices are clear, well sort of...
SACD- Gutted Denon DVD-1930Ci to send the DSD. Got one for $100
HTPC- Slinet running with ESI Julia SC to send I2S
DAC- TP Buffalo
I/V- NP D1
PRE- 24V Aikido with headamp duties 50% of the time.
SPEAKERS- Audio Nirvana Cast Super 10 or 12's in an TL like that giant NP made for subs. A simple long pipe to give a boost at 25 or 30Hz. If that will suck I would go OB and at a pair of subs but I would really love it if the TL 10 or 12 would be all I "need."
AMPS- Name the First Watt amp that best suits the drivers(F1?) and try to find the PCB's to build it. If there is a sub in the system, a low pass active for the sub would have to be constructed with a small baffle to let the FR roll off on it's own possibly a 6db high pass single cap.
I cannot tell you how excited I am to hear their reports with the AN drivers. If a single driver could deliver thundering bass with a TL design with no other flaws I would save huge cash! I would be able to trim off an active xover, a First Watt sub amp, 2 subs. That is a thousand bucks at least! Take off an Aikido and expensive tubes not needed in SE operation, another $300 maybe. $1300 buys a lot of music! I am building a house around this room so I can build the TL tube into the ground or wall to save space. Can't do that with a Klein Horn, LOL!
The $1300 could also go towards the other attraction in this room, a big window into an outdoor reef pond with natural Thai tropical sunlight to grow the coral. Loaded with fish, this will be spectacular with beautiful music flowing from the sides of the aquarium. If I get bored with my reef I may buy a projector one day, but I doubt I will. My dreams will be soon realized with my woman, our home, her outdoor fish pond(my indoor HiFi aquarium), the perfect choice of jobs, healthy food, kind people, great weather(except tsunamis and cyclones), SCUBA for work and play, sea kayaking through tiny islands... The place is paradise for those who can see it, others will not. The fact that wild tigers and elephants still roam in the neighbouring rain forest is fantastic! I have been living close to this dream for a while with only my good sound, "our" house, and big aquarium missing. I did OK without the fish tank because I am a SCUBA instructor over there and was diving daily. The music is a must and my headphones are not very social, lol. Life is a lot more social and old fashioned outside the tourist areas, we could listen to our grandparents and they would have similar ideals.
I just miss my good sounding tunes, gave everything up to get here except the tunes with nothing to listen to them on. Bitter irony!
I have been mulling over the design of my "last" rig for at least a year. The reason I have not really begun is the complete lack of availability for some of the key components. Over this time I had countless hours sitting at the computer because currently, it is the only source of music I have. I have maintained my core design goals, but a few compenents changed because of the release of a few new products to the DIY world.
First, the DAC will now be a Twisted Pear Buffalo DAC and newly chosen Pass D1 I/V. The signal that was to be balanced is now SE to simplify things and to save cash for some of the upgrades. I am confident it will still sound better than anything I have heard before. I also think I will prefer the SE anyway. The D1 sends the signal to the only original choice, an Aikido preamp. However, it will now be a 24V headphone amp too. This will save me huge coin over a balanced 6SN7 Aikido with much more costly parts. The reports are that they sound wonderful for both duties. I have since aquired a NOS set of four Telefunken ECC86 ready to rock.
That leaves the only decisions to be amps(bi-amp), crossover and speakers. Now at the start I was building the system around Hypex amps and CSS FR125SR full rangers and CSS SDX7 bass units in a TL for the bass and OB for the FR. Crossover was to be a Marchand XM44. Now, I am really looking for a driver and enclosure I can afford to use Mr. Pass's First Watt current amps with a OB FR and TL sub. I was leaning toward trying the original speaker design(86db eff.) with the First Watt anyway but I feared that they would be underpowerd. I also am worried that a 4" driver with and 86db efficiency might not realy be that dynamic. I mean, you need square footage to move air. The answer is that I needed a high efficiency FR, but I still feared I was going to have to settle. Every great sounding small FR was either a Lowther that I can not afford, or some gigantic horn I will never have room for. Again, I fall back on the addition of stereo subs to cover the low end and free up the FR.
The answer is very simple only if these big Audio Nirvana drivers impress Mr. Pass and others. Then the remaining choices are clear, well sort of...
SACD- Gutted Denon DVD-1930Ci to send the DSD. Got one for $100
HTPC- Slinet running with ESI Julia SC to send I2S
DAC- TP Buffalo
I/V- NP D1
PRE- 24V Aikido with headamp duties 50% of the time.
SPEAKERS- Audio Nirvana Cast Super 10 or 12's in an TL like that giant NP made for subs. A simple long pipe to give a boost at 25 or 30Hz. If that will suck I would go OB and at a pair of subs but I would really love it if the TL 10 or 12 would be all I "need."
AMPS- Name the First Watt amp that best suits the drivers(F1?) and try to find the PCB's to build it. If there is a sub in the system, a low pass active for the sub would have to be constructed with a small baffle to let the FR roll off on it's own possibly a 6db high pass single cap.
I cannot tell you how excited I am to hear their reports with the AN drivers. If a single driver could deliver thundering bass with a TL design with no other flaws I would save huge cash! I would be able to trim off an active xover, a First Watt sub amp, 2 subs. That is a thousand bucks at least! Take off an Aikido and expensive tubes not needed in SE operation, another $300 maybe. $1300 buys a lot of music! I am building a house around this room so I can build the TL tube into the ground or wall to save space. Can't do that with a Klein Horn, LOL!
The $1300 could also go towards the other attraction in this room, a big window into an outdoor reef pond with natural Thai tropical sunlight to grow the coral. Loaded with fish, this will be spectacular with beautiful music flowing from the sides of the aquarium. If I get bored with my reef I may buy a projector one day, but I doubt I will. My dreams will be soon realized with my woman, our home, her outdoor fish pond(my indoor HiFi aquarium), the perfect choice of jobs, healthy food, kind people, great weather(except tsunamis and cyclones), SCUBA for work and play, sea kayaking through tiny islands... The place is paradise for those who can see it, others will not. The fact that wild tigers and elephants still roam in the neighbouring rain forest is fantastic! I have been living close to this dream for a while with only my good sound, "our" house, and big aquarium missing. I did OK without the fish tank because I am a SCUBA instructor over there and was diving daily. The music is a must and my headphones are not very social, lol. Life is a lot more social and old fashioned outside the tourist areas, we could listen to our grandparents and they would have similar ideals.
I just miss my good sounding tunes, gave everything up to get here except the tunes with nothing to listen to them on. Bitter irony!
Khun,
We have a friend who is a mountain climber (world class) and photographer who lives in the Phe Phe Islands. She has convinced us to visit although we dont know when this will be. It sounds absolutely beautiful. She migrates between Jackson, Wyoming and the Phe Phe so she must have great taste in locations. Sounds like a wonderful life. Kids would probably turn your world upside down, but when you get a bit bored and think you need something more/different I highly recommend a son or daughter It will be the BEST thing that ever happened to you.. thats a guarantee.
Great deal on the SACD player!! I need one at that price But they are always expensive and I have doubts about a DVD/SACD combo. Trying to find my old playstation. I have heard the CD player in them is first rate.
Glad to hear you so excited about the Audio Nirvanas. They are super inexpensive and come with a 30 day money back guarantee, so you have nothing to lose. Yeah, 1300 buys a lot of music!!
I built one speaker cover last night and am finishing up another today. Also building two 5.5" speaker stands today. I needed them up a little bit higher than David Dicks design offers. Finished cutting the wood a few minutes ago and figured I would see what was cooking on DIY. Good to hear from you. I really hope you will keep us updated.
Oh, and while I know nothing about First Watt amps, I am building the F5. Its advertised as being so easy to put together that even a caveman, or Geico customer, could build one. You could wait for a group buy on a pcb or wait, and watch very closely to passlabs dot com for a pcb release this summer, or just do point to point wiring. This amp is easy to build, cheap as hell except for the heatsink, and really does not need a pcb. Correct me if I am wrong Mr. Pass, but thats the way it looks to me. My total cost including power supply, rectifier, transformer, and all amp parts is about $115, but I paid about 10 to much for some matched parts. The heatsinks will set me back another $50 -$80 so all in all thats a very inexpensive amp that is designed specifically to drive FR speakers. And if you think about the fact that Mr. Pass came out with the F5 around the same time he bought a whole bunch of Audio Nirvanas to test..... hmmm.. probably one of the best amps you could ever make for the ANs would be an F5. My bet anyways.
Uriah
ps Honestly, keep us posted on your AN build. And go buy them right now They are on sale. The 10" cost $20 less than the 12" right now so why bother with 10s? By the way David Dicks says dont sweat the Vas on these speakers. He says Bass Reflex sounds best and that they dont need to be giants. I mean, mine are big, but only about 109Liters rather than 291 like the Vas suggests.
We have a friend who is a mountain climber (world class) and photographer who lives in the Phe Phe Islands. She has convinced us to visit although we dont know when this will be. It sounds absolutely beautiful. She migrates between Jackson, Wyoming and the Phe Phe so she must have great taste in locations. Sounds like a wonderful life. Kids would probably turn your world upside down, but when you get a bit bored and think you need something more/different I highly recommend a son or daughter
It will be the BEST thing that ever happened to you.. thats a guarantee.Great deal on the SACD player!! I need one at that price
But they are always expensive and I have doubts about a DVD/SACD combo. Trying to find my old playstation. I have heard the CD player in them is first rate.Glad to hear you so excited about the Audio Nirvanas. They are super inexpensive and come with a 30 day money back guarantee, so you have nothing to lose. Yeah, 1300 buys a lot of music!!
I built one speaker cover last night and am finishing up another today. Also building two 5.5" speaker stands today. I needed them up a little bit higher than David Dicks design offers. Finished cutting the wood a few minutes ago and figured I would see what was cooking on DIY. Good to hear from you. I really hope you will keep us updated.
Oh, and while I know nothing about First Watt amps, I am building the F5. Its advertised as being so easy to put together that even a caveman, or Geico customer, could build one. You could wait for a group buy on a pcb or wait, and watch very closely to passlabs dot com for a pcb release this summer, or just do point to point wiring. This amp is easy to build, cheap as hell except for the heatsink, and really does not need a pcb. Correct me if I am wrong Mr. Pass, but thats the way it looks to me. My total cost including power supply, rectifier, transformer, and all amp parts is about $115, but I paid about 10 to much for some matched parts. The heatsinks will set me back another $50 -$80 so all in all thats a very inexpensive amp that is designed specifically to drive FR speakers. And if you think about the fact that Mr. Pass came out with the F5 around the same time he bought a whole bunch of Audio Nirvanas to test..... hmmm.. probably one of the best amps you could ever make for the ANs would be an F5. My bet anyways.
Uriah
ps Honestly, keep us posted on your AN build. And go buy them right now
They are on sale. The 10" cost $20 less than the 12" right now so why bother with 10s? By the way David Dicks says dont sweat the Vas on these speakers. He says Bass Reflex sounds best and that they dont need to be giants. I mean, mine are big, but only about 109Liters rather than 291 like the Vas suggests.Two new pics to show you guys/gals. The last two pics on my web album are new.
http://picasaweb.google.com/udailey...anaSuper12Build
I built a speaker stand and a speaker cover. Stand gets it to the correct listening position and looks neat. Think I will house Nelson Pass F5 amps in the stands.
Udailey
http://picasaweb.google.com/udailey...anaSuper12Build
I built a speaker stand and a speaker cover. Stand gets it to the correct listening position and looks neat. Think I will house Nelson Pass F5 amps in the stands.
Udailey
Phi Phi
Phi Phi is beautiful! I would take divers there about once a week when living in Phuket. Manta rays, sharks, great reefs, a myriad of colour! However, Phi Phi is not really like the rest of Thailand, except for maybe Phuket. I have never had a good experience with the locals or tourists on Phi Phi, noses tend to point high in the air. Phuket is almost like a western area now. I will only be in Phuket long enough to help move the lady and kids to Khao Lak which has less kiddy fiddler tourists! The Thai people are the true beauty of this country and areas like Phuket, Pattaya, Koh Samui, and Koh Phi Phi have different Thais. Too many of our bad habits shape their days and the moral decay is inevitable. This cannot be around these areas too long! My life in Phuket/Phi Phi has been half of what it was in the rest of Thailand because I can't go anywhere without being angered by the way westerners treat the Thais. Brainwashing has come with TV and Thai soap operas and is prevailant in the wealthier areas where we spend our money. In the last five years since TVs became commonplace I have seen paradise decay. Why must we ruin everything we touch like King Midas. Sure our hands makes everything more expensive and their property values rise, and again the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The word "mine" has been popping up a lot lately in these areas and was a bad thing to say before.
Yes, Thailand is a beautiful country with the most beautiful and tolerant people I have ever met anywhere. Tibet has more wholesome people than Thailand, but our men don't buy their sons and daughters to use as amusement parks! The fact that the girl bar scene caters to 99% foreigners and very few see how it really makes these girls and there family feel is an amazing display of tolerance. I know in my heart that if my son felt the only way he could support his family was to have a sex change and ho himself out to western men who are not right in the head, I would not be so tolerant! Pleas visit this true paradise on earth, but don't look for the best infrastucture and use your dollars to vote in a new future in Thailand.
That's right, we westerners are shaping their future by voting what kind of Thailand we want with our dollars. Try buying a bar girl a night off and take her for dinner instead and talk about everything and anything BUT her job, that is "up to her." This would be a pleasant change for many girls whose hearts are dying inside. It would cost the same as sex, but you would feel better than if you used her! Think, for $30 you could help change their perception of what makes us tick! Hell, go all out and buy her for a week and give her a bus ticket to go see her family (she became a prostitute for their future, sacrificing hers). Think, $250 is what many who visit spend in an afternoon shopping in Phuket so why not buy something good for a change.
I apologize for the tangent, but many hypocritical westerners who are quick to judge and slow to change are destroying more than just the environment. The cause and effect of our gluttony has further reaching social implications than "just" the environment! To make things clear, I am third generation Canadian from English, Irish, French, and First Nation(native Canadian) blood, I am not Thai. I am 34, educated, well travelled(not vacations in Mexico), well respected, and most of the time I am humble. If you are offended by comments I truly apologize. Oh, and if the offended is a sex tourist you can scratch the last sentence.
BACK TO HiFi,
Owning only the few clothes and my music collection is quite liberating and I don't feel that bad about building myself a stereo. I want to build to learn something new and fight the business trends in the world today by placing my money in better hands. These AN drivers are getting me all excited again and I can hardly wait to hear NP's impressions in an OB or maybe "El Full Range Tube" transmission line! If they are great with bass at 30Hz I will worship at their alter daily. If they are just plain good, I will buy them and be happy. I don't think they will suck so I guess I have made up my mind, I am buying a pair. I will wait to see which one will fit my tastes and I hope that Mr. Pass's finding will help. I would use a 10", 12", or even and 8". Whichever is the better driver and not just the biggest. I have been happier with my new Zen lifestyle and i think these would keep it simple. One box to run two towers is all I need. The only possible hiccup I can see is the bass. If this is the case, and TL is not the way to go, OB and a mono sub is the last word I think.
Phi Phi is beautiful! I would take divers there about once a week when living in Phuket. Manta rays, sharks, great reefs, a myriad of colour! However, Phi Phi is not really like the rest of Thailand, except for maybe Phuket. I have never had a good experience with the locals or tourists on Phi Phi, noses tend to point high in the air. Phuket is almost like a western area now. I will only be in Phuket long enough to help move the lady and kids to Khao Lak which has less kiddy fiddler tourists! The Thai people are the true beauty of this country and areas like Phuket, Pattaya, Koh Samui, and Koh Phi Phi have different Thais. Too many of our bad habits shape their days and the moral decay is inevitable. This cannot be around these areas too long! My life in Phuket/Phi Phi has been half of what it was in the rest of Thailand because I can't go anywhere without being angered by the way westerners treat the Thais. Brainwashing has come with TV and Thai soap operas and is prevailant in the wealthier areas where we spend our money. In the last five years since TVs became commonplace I have seen paradise decay. Why must we ruin everything we touch like King Midas. Sure our hands makes everything more expensive and their property values rise, and again the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The word "mine" has been popping up a lot lately in these areas and was a bad thing to say before.
Yes, Thailand is a beautiful country with the most beautiful and tolerant people I have ever met anywhere. Tibet has more wholesome people than Thailand, but our men don't buy their sons and daughters to use as amusement parks! The fact that the girl bar scene caters to 99% foreigners and very few see how it really makes these girls and there family feel is an amazing display of tolerance. I know in my heart that if my son felt the only way he could support his family was to have a sex change and ho himself out to western men who are not right in the head, I would not be so tolerant! Pleas visit this true paradise on earth, but don't look for the best infrastucture and use your dollars to vote in a new future in Thailand.
That's right, we westerners are shaping their future by voting what kind of Thailand we want with our dollars. Try buying a bar girl a night off and take her for dinner instead and talk about everything and anything BUT her job, that is "up to her." This would be a pleasant change for many girls whose hearts are dying inside. It would cost the same as sex, but you would feel better than if you used her! Think, for $30 you could help change their perception of what makes us tick! Hell, go all out and buy her for a week and give her a bus ticket to go see her family (she became a prostitute for their future, sacrificing hers). Think, $250 is what many who visit spend in an afternoon shopping in Phuket so why not buy something good for a change.
I apologize for the tangent, but many hypocritical westerners who are quick to judge and slow to change are destroying more than just the environment. The cause and effect of our gluttony has further reaching social implications than "just" the environment! To make things clear, I am third generation Canadian from English, Irish, French, and First Nation(native Canadian) blood, I am not Thai. I am 34, educated, well travelled(not vacations in Mexico), well respected, and most of the time I am humble. If you are offended by comments I truly apologize. Oh, and if the offended is a sex tourist you can scratch the last sentence.
BACK TO HiFi,
Owning only the few clothes and my music collection is quite liberating and I don't feel that bad about building myself a stereo. I want to build to learn something new and fight the business trends in the world today by placing my money in better hands. These AN drivers are getting me all excited again and I can hardly wait to hear NP's impressions in an OB or maybe "El Full Range Tube" transmission line! If they are great with bass at 30Hz I will worship at their alter daily. If they are just plain good, I will buy them and be happy. I don't think they will suck so I guess I have made up my mind, I am buying a pair. I will wait to see which one will fit my tastes and I hope that Mr. Pass's finding will help. I would use a 10", 12", or even and 8". Whichever is the better driver and not just the biggest. I have been happier with my new Zen lifestyle and i think these would keep it simple. One box to run two towers is all I need. The only possible hiccup I can see is the bass. If this is the case, and TL is not the way to go, OB and a mono sub is the last word I think.
Khundude,
Yeah, I would call that a tangent But I can see where you could get very very upset about that kind of behavior and also to get very protective of your country and its citizens. It would be nice to see the Thai government prosecute these people and sit them in prison for a very long time.
I think you will find the bass of the 12" to be incredible. I dont know about 10" and 8" but if you look at the Frequency/SPL curve on pages
Super 12"
Super 10"
Super 8"
You will find that the roll off of the bass is way better on the 12". And if you look at the cast frame
Cast Frame Super 12"
You will find the bass is going to be much better than the regular Super 12"
Wish I had bought it but sometimes ignorance is bliss. The bass I am getting is really deep and loud.
Uriah
Yeah, I would call that a tangent
But I can see where you could get very very upset about that kind of behavior and also to get very protective of your country and its citizens. It would be nice to see the Thai government prosecute these people and sit them in prison for a very long time.I think you will find the bass of the 12" to be incredible. I dont know about 10" and 8" but if you look at the Frequency/SPL curve on pages
Super 12"
Super 10"
Super 8"
You will find that the roll off of the bass is way better on the 12". And if you look at the cast frame
Cast Frame Super 12"
You will find the bass is going to be much better than the regular Super 12"
Wish I had bought it but sometimes ignorance is bliss. The bass I am getting is really deep and loud.
Uriah
Sounds wonderful!(the AN drivers that is)
I would love to place them in a 10 or 12" sonotube 10 to 12' long for that extra reinforcement of the lower registers and see what we would have for results. I like my bass down to the 25Hz region and as flat as possible. After 25Hz, if can roll off as quickly as it likes! Super 10's or 12's in cast frame would be the choice for me I think and may come down to the sound of the higher frequencies.
Remember, I am a white guy from Canada. It is my own people I am disgusted with and prosecuting them would lead nowhere except to wealthier corrupt Thai judges and polititians that have been coersed by the west since 1945. The sex tourists and others that go there to trash the place because they can't do it at home. The Thais will not bite the hand that feeds them so I wish these tourists' own families and government took responsability for their OWN actions. The only solution to this situation is for us to stop taking advantage of more civilized, older, and humble peoples of the world! Just because you can does not mean you should. I always say it is better to take the bullets out of the gun than to wear a bullet proof vest.
I would love to place them in a 10 or 12" sonotube 10 to 12' long for that extra reinforcement of the lower registers and see what we would have for results. I like my bass down to the 25Hz region and as flat as possible. After 25Hz, if can roll off as quickly as it likes! Super 10's or 12's in cast frame would be the choice for me I think and may come down to the sound of the higher frequencies.
Remember, I am a white guy from Canada. It is my own people I am disgusted with and prosecuting them would lead nowhere except to wealthier corrupt Thai judges and polititians that have been coersed by the west since 1945. The sex tourists and others that go there to trash the place because they can't do it at home. The Thais will not bite the hand that feeds them so I wish these tourists' own families and government took responsability for their OWN actions. The only solution to this situation is for us to stop taking advantage of more civilized, older, and humble peoples of the world! Just because you can does not mean you should. I always say it is better to take the bullets out of the gun than to wear a bullet proof vest.
Unless I am wrong, the TL design is mostly for bass. The main info is from the driver the bass is reinforced by the TL which is tuned ny the length of the tube. Stuffing is sometimes used in full range TL's to mimic extra length, right? Stuffing absorbs most HF sound. Besides, with a 12" midrange the sound would be full enough essentially making the tube "just" for bass anyway. If this would not work for sure and someone knows that, please chime in. The other option I might do anyway to free up the mid a bit is a sub.
All I can say since I have read a lot but only built two sets of speakers so far is this:
The AN is a Full Range speaker. It looks like you are treating it more like a sub and worried about enhancing the base and midrange. But look at those graphs. The Frequency/SPL means, and maybe you know all this, that the specified frequency on the graph is represented at a certain 'volume', or, decibel at one meter away with one watt of power. So if you look at the graph you will see that all frequencies from about 40 up to about 15k are represented with the same amount of decibels. You dont have to try to enhance the bass or midrange. If you want more you just turn up the volume since it will be represented in a 1to1 ratio to the high frequencies. If you like more bass/mid than the music originally has then you would want an equalizer, but you dont need an enclosure that enhances either the bass or midrange since this speaker if fully capable of representing them just as well as it does the higher frequencies.
Its nice that MrPass is working on this for us Not much mention of Audio Nirvana on this site. So its hard to know what to do. I use Bass Reflex. Sounds fantastic. If you want an experts advice you might just check out this site:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/MJK-for-dummies/index.html
It talks about Martin Kings designs. And, if you use his mathcad sheet for designing your enclosure, then use a BSC circuit using his designs again, you might get a superb speaker that nobody had to have a bunch of background knowledge on.
I am no expert.. umm. at all. But I know what sounds good and this BR box is excellent and I am betting that if MrPass is working with the OB that its got to sound great and I dont know how with 90db at about 30Hz that a boost to the bass would be necessary. The midrange is about 95db from 100Hz all the way to 1k and past that it doesnt give up until after 15k, hell in the cast form the Super 12" is still about 90db all the way up to ~18k.
I think with the most basic of enclosures you are going to get great results with excellent representation of all frequencies that you are capable of hearing.
DIY link to thread about AN12
Here is another
Might help with box selection
But careful with the last one. Some people claim to not like them... But try to find a post where they have listened. Take it with a grain of salt, both, his comments and mine
The good thing is that the OB and the BR are easy easy easy and if you made the BR first and didnt like it you could use the pieces to make your OB
I really recommend calling David Dicks at CSA. He doesnt use the DIY forums any longer but obviously has a big interest in these drivers since he designed them. He also has zero interest in what box you use so you should not get a biased response. He has a big interest in selling the drivers to you but you are already convinced so no worries. He is nice, down to earth, educated in his own product, and feels that the BR is the best enclosure. He recommends on the site to use MDF and then Ply over top. I am talking to much.
Uriah
Here is another link
another link
umm.. another link
Seems that lots of people feel that a BIB or BR is best and that the bass DOES need a bit of boost and that it gets that boost in a BIB or BR. So again, everything with a grain of salt.
Linkidy link link etc. link
The AN is a Full Range speaker. It looks like you are treating it more like a sub and worried about enhancing the base and midrange. But look at those graphs. The Frequency/SPL means, and maybe you know all this, that the specified frequency on the graph is represented at a certain 'volume', or, decibel at one meter away with one watt of power. So if you look at the graph you will see that all frequencies from about 40 up to about 15k are represented with the same amount of decibels. You dont have to try to enhance the bass or midrange. If you want more you just turn up the volume since it will be represented in a 1to1 ratio to the high frequencies. If you like more bass/mid than the music originally has then you would want an equalizer, but you dont need an enclosure that enhances either the bass or midrange since this speaker if fully capable of representing them just as well as it does the higher frequencies.
Its nice that MrPass is working on this for us
Not much mention of Audio Nirvana on this site. So its hard to know what to do. I use Bass Reflex. Sounds fantastic. If you want an experts advice you might just check out this site:http://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/MJK-for-dummies/index.html
It talks about Martin Kings designs. And, if you use his mathcad sheet for designing your enclosure, then use a BSC circuit using his designs again, you might get a superb speaker that nobody had to have a bunch of background knowledge on.
I am no expert.. umm. at all. But I know what sounds good and this BR box is excellent and I am betting that if MrPass is working with the OB that its got to sound great and I dont know how with 90db at about 30Hz that a boost to the bass would be necessary. The midrange is about 95db from 100Hz all the way to 1k and past that it doesnt give up until after 15k, hell in the cast form the Super 12" is still about 90db all the way up to ~18k.
I think with the most basic of enclosures you are going to get great results with excellent representation of all frequencies that you are capable of hearing.
DIY link to thread about AN12
Here is another
Might help with box selection
But careful with the last one. Some people claim to not like them... But try to find a post where they have listened. Take it with a grain of salt, both, his comments and mine
The good thing is that the OB and the BR are easy easy easy and if you made the BR first and didnt like it you could use the pieces to make your OB
I really recommend calling David Dicks at CSA. He doesnt use the DIY forums any longer but obviously has a big interest in these drivers since he designed them. He also has zero interest in what box you use so you should not get a biased response. He has a big interest in selling the drivers to you
but you are already convinced so no worries. He is nice, down to earth, educated in his own product, and feels that the BR is the best enclosure. He recommends on the site to use MDF and then Ply over top. I am talking to much. Uriah
Here is another link
another link
umm.. another link
Seems that lots of people feel that a BIB or BR is best and that the bass DOES need a bit of boost and that it gets that boost in a BIB or BR. So again, everything with a grain of salt.
Linkidy link link etc. link
For me it is clear... I don't like the sound of ports. Sealed can be good, but everytime I hear OB bass or TL bass or dipolar bass it always wins. Now, a tuned port is essentially performing the same task as a transmission line and you are tuning the port or line for the bass only. Whether or not you choose to run a low pass filter is all that would make difference between a TL and a TL sub, correct? I think if we were talking about horns it would be different. I have only heard three full range TL design, 2 Lowther and I don't remember the other. All three had stuffing in them to remove the higher freq and to allow the driver to operate in more optimal conditions while atrtempting to produce realistic bass. If you can build them into a box and tune em, you should be able to do better with a TL arrangement. If you used a 14' TL just like NP and loaded the AN driver in the end we should see a rise in the 20Hz region. Just like a 20Hz tuned port, or could we say that this is where the ported box becomes just a port. No boxiness.
Where this interests me most is with the 10" cast which seems to drift up in the HF. A 12' TL tube and stuffed to taste might just be a great way to get it all. Otherwise, a simple OB will be my choice before any box and the cast 12" might be the perfect driver for the job.
Where this interests me most is with the 10" cast which seems to drift up in the HF. A 12' TL tube and stuffed to taste might just be a great way to get it all. Otherwise, a simple OB will be my choice before any box and the cast 12" might be the perfect driver for the job.
khundude said:
I think that's not just bass region where difference is ;
I'm also favoring TL ,OB or horn approach for main drivers ..... and my impression is that most important difference (comparing to closed and BR) is in voice region ( mids) , probably as effect of less doppler distortion
I would love to hear nice 20Hz. If Choky says TL is great I see no reason why not to try. This guy has been building audio since soundwaves first resonated in a box But still might want to talk to David Dicks. I bet he has heard them in a TL and would have valuable impressions of their performance.
Uriah
But still might want to talk to David Dicks. I bet he has heard them in a TL and would have valuable impressions of their performance.Uriah
I hate boxes with port noise, standing waves(especially with paper cane drivers), well that means distortion in general. I can place the end of the line anywhere within say, eight feet of the front baffle. I am thinking that it would be best to make it in a "U" shape with the line opening to the ceiling.
What is funny is the the links supplied to guide me away to other plans, lead me right to the commonsense site why I though I would look at the Lowthers for fun. The first cabinet I see is the Lowther 2.8 Ambience... "Could this be the world's best sounding speaker?" The first DIYAudio link took me to a guys page who had made a 2 driver AN enclosure with one firing up. This becomes interesting when you see that most of the posts that followed flame this guy for messing up the sound. Kind of like I am being told here. The funny part is that commonsense sells a similar design only replacing the front firing AN 8" with the Lowther of your choice. I get told that I need to read these and they contradict each other. The other contradiction is that they do not need more bass reinforcement but almost all posts are on a quest to do just that. I guess I will wait for Mr. Pass to bring his wisdom to the table before I get to involved in seriously searching out a design.
If a massive 12.5' long, 12" in diameter, TL for one AN cast Super 12" would yield a boost at 22Hz would that not be good? Even better might be to make it 10" in dia. and 10' long with stuffing to remove the mids and highs? Either a long tube with no stuffin to crate "ambience," or shorter with stuffing to create more of a monitor. Hell, you could even build an extension to try both or switch at any time. You could tune it with stuffing to your taste or get the stuffing out for a little dipole like effect. How could this be anything other than great! It would be freakin' huge, but if you built a room around it you could build into the floor or the walls.
The best might just be a simple OB with a mono dipole or TL sub 80Hz and down.
Who knows? I know that it is great someone is shaking up the market. Innovation breeds competition!
What is funny is the the links supplied to guide me away to other plans, lead me right to the commonsense site why I though I would look at the Lowthers for fun. The first cabinet I see is the Lowther 2.8 Ambience... "Could this be the world's best sounding speaker?" The first DIYAudio link took me to a guys page who had made a 2 driver AN enclosure with one firing up. This becomes interesting when you see that most of the posts that followed flame this guy for messing up the sound. Kind of like I am being told here. The funny part is that commonsense sells a similar design only replacing the front firing AN 8" with the Lowther of your choice. I get told that I need to read these and they contradict each other. The other contradiction is that they do not need more bass reinforcement but almost all posts are on a quest to do just that. I guess I will wait for Mr. Pass to bring his wisdom to the table before I get to involved in seriously searching out a design.
If a massive 12.5' long, 12" in diameter, TL for one AN cast Super 12" would yield a boost at 22Hz would that not be good? Even better might be to make it 10" in dia. and 10' long with stuffing to remove the mids and highs? Either a long tube with no stuffin to crate "ambience," or shorter with stuffing to create more of a monitor. Hell, you could even build an extension to try both or switch at any time. You could tune it with stuffing to your taste or get the stuffing out for a little dipole like effect. How could this be anything other than great! It would be freakin' huge, but if you built a room around it you could build into the floor or the walls.
The best might just be a simple OB with a mono dipole or TL sub 80Hz and down.
Who knows? I know that it is great someone is shaking up the market. Innovation breeds competition!
Yes, lots of contradiction in the links. I put them out there to you because they represent many different opinions and I am only one opinion. You may have experience with different designs and find that what one person in those posts is saying rings true to you as well.
I find no distortion at even the highest volumes. Its very nice and refreshing.
Uriah
I find no distortion at even the highest volumes. Its very nice and refreshing.
Uriah
Thanks udailey, I have a basic fall back then. I think Nelson is playing with the open baffle first because it is a great to hear "just" the driver and also because he has a lot of baffles around. I am certain that after he throws a couple of dozen drivers in he will select a couple and play some more. It seem that his family frequently is helping and playing too and cut a bunch of baffles for him. This is great for me because the OB is my favorite way to reproduce mids and highs. The OB bas in a full range driver has always impressed me for it's detail, but never was enough bass. The dipolar subs I have heard are bloody amazing and I am sure the results from NP's own El Pipe-o TL sub are fantastic too.
The TL is the only FR enclosure I have heard that could stand alone. They were both built around with Lowthers and both designs sounded fantastic(needed more low bass, but with jazz they were great). When listening to speakers I always get down and listen close to the port/TL opening/passive radiator or whatever because I find I can tell more about how the bass in the system is being produced. In both of the Lowther TL arrangements I did the same and heard little to no mid or high ferquencies, only midbass and down. And if a little extra of the higher frequencies get through, I would end the line with the tube near the height of the driver facing up. This would likely help create a bigger soundstage just as the OB/Dipole/Bipole. Another scenario could be to stuff the end so that less sound gets sound through. This tuning would only let the lowest of the low through and make the TL more like an infinite baffle with no boxiness.
The TL is the only FR enclosure I have heard that could stand alone. They were both built around with Lowthers and both designs sounded fantastic(needed more low bass, but with jazz they were great). When listening to speakers I always get down and listen close to the port/TL opening/passive radiator or whatever because I find I can tell more about how the bass in the system is being produced. In both of the Lowther TL arrangements I did the same and heard little to no mid or high ferquencies, only midbass and down. And if a little extra of the higher frequencies get through, I would end the line with the tube near the height of the driver facing up. This would likely help create a bigger soundstage just as the OB/Dipole/Bipole. Another scenario could be to stuff the end so that less sound gets sound through. This tuning would only let the lowest of the low through and make the TL more like an infinite baffle with no boxiness.
The Tline link you gave me is one of the references I was using. From the site "Stuffing to dampen nulls, ripples and impedance peaks -- The last option is stuffing, which should be relatively light so as not to attenuate the opening output too much. Stuffing will make the frequency curve smoother and dampen impedance peaks. The draw back is less bass. The balance between damping peaks and nulls, and still benefiting from the opening output is clearly seen in the MathCad worksheets."
Since the AN driver already goes pretty low and, as you say, rolls off about 6dB at 30Hz this design seems perfect. I will use I see a 12" driver that is loaded into a baffle that sits on a 12' dia. tube that imediately surves 90 degrees to the floor tapers to 10" and then back 180 to the ceiling, again back to the floor and up and out to the ceiling like a "W." The entire inside surface of the 12" and 10 "pipe lined with an inch of stuffing. The The bends and shrinking diameter, all lined with an inch of stuffing, would filter out most of the mids and highs only letting through a few extra dB of low bass. I could then make it in sections and have diferent lenghts with different stuffing that would let me tailor the bass to my room. I could also make end caps for the TL and port a section to try a reflex design or even seal it completely and feed it more power.
I had a pair of 6.5" car audio drivers that I mounted in a 6" sealed straight tube with a cap on the end and then placed the supplied tweeter from the two way kit above the horizontal tube. The tube's end cap had stuffing in it to stop most of the mid/high reflections. These sounded pretty damn good for my first project but it needed more lower bass. I did not really have time or money to build a box or buy drivers(university) so I ripped the rear compnent set out of my car and stuffed them into a tube. When I did build a bass reflex enclosure for them I did not like the sound any more, boomy. When I realized I was not ever in my car and always in my room I went pack to smaller sealed tubes and crossed them off at 120Hz(12dB slopes) and ripped the sealed subs out of my car to cover the bass. This sounded better than anything I had heard before and start my quest for good sound and kick *** parties! Over the years I have become very attached to good sound and party harder but not as often and my system is not for use for the parties. I have other gear for that(for the Brits, I mean HiFi, not drugs).
So the best case scenario is that an OB design is all I need. Next would be the TL and if that sucks I can seal it in a box with some ports and call it a day.
Is there a way to go semi OB? Build a box, to minimize reflection back to the cone and without a top(kinda like corner loading). This would then make it an another design other than pure OB, but it would allow a permanent solution when corner loading is not possible.
Since the AN driver already goes pretty low and, as you say, rolls off about 6dB at 30Hz this design seems perfect. I will use I see a 12" driver that is loaded into a baffle that sits on a 12' dia. tube that imediately surves 90 degrees to the floor tapers to 10" and then back 180 to the ceiling, again back to the floor and up and out to the ceiling like a "W." The entire inside surface of the 12" and 10 "pipe lined with an inch of stuffing. The The bends and shrinking diameter, all lined with an inch of stuffing, would filter out most of the mids and highs only letting through a few extra dB of low bass. I could then make it in sections and have diferent lenghts with different stuffing that would let me tailor the bass to my room. I could also make end caps for the TL and port a section to try a reflex design or even seal it completely and feed it more power.
I had a pair of 6.5" car audio drivers that I mounted in a 6" sealed straight tube with a cap on the end and then placed the supplied tweeter from the two way kit above the horizontal tube. The tube's end cap had stuffing in it to stop most of the mid/high reflections. These sounded pretty damn good for my first project but it needed more lower bass. I did not really have time or money to build a box or buy drivers(university) so I ripped the rear compnent set out of my car and stuffed them into a tube. When I did build a bass reflex enclosure for them I did not like the sound any more, boomy. When I realized I was not ever in my car and always in my room I went pack to smaller sealed tubes and crossed them off at 120Hz(12dB slopes) and ripped the sealed subs out of my car to cover the bass. This sounded better than anything I had heard before and start my quest for good sound and kick *** parties! Over the years I have become very attached to good sound and party harder but not as often and my system is not for use for the parties. I have other gear for that(for the Brits, I mean HiFi, not drugs).
So the best case scenario is that an OB design is all I need. Next would be the TL and if that sucks I can seal it in a box with some ports and call it a day.
Is there a way to go semi OB? Build a box, to minimize reflection back to the cone and without a top(kinda like corner loading). This would then make it an another design other than pure OB, but it would allow a permanent solution when corner loading is not possible.
Khundude,
Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it.
WOW that 'W' shaped enclosure sounds wild. Would love to see pics if you build it.
I have seen people put wings on sides and also on top/bottom of OBs but have not seen anyone putting anything behind the OB other than the wall.
Have you considered using BudP's EnABL process to get rid of the standing waves you were talking about? Its pretty controversial, but seems that everyone who does it reports back with positive results.
Uriah
Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it.
WOW that 'W' shaped enclosure sounds wild. Would love to see pics if you build it.
I have seen people put wings on sides and also on top/bottom of OBs but have not seen anyone putting anything behind the OB other than the wall.
Have you considered using BudP's EnABL process to get rid of the standing waves you were talking about? Its pretty controversial, but seems that everyone who does it reports back with positive results.
Uriah
Yes, EnAbling is on the need to learn more list as well as how to type, eNaBlEd, in with the keyboard correctly. About the "W" tube, do you think that if the wave travels through a 90 degree curve followed by 3, 180 degree curves with the walls lined with stuffing that it would sufficiently filter out all but the bass?
I have no idea
I suppose you could try a mini model with a small Tang Band driver or another good but inexpensive driver and some PVC plumbing pipe. Then you could compare the differences and get an idea of what would happen. I am no speaker guru and a speaker guru might not even know the answer to that one, but I bet Planet10 would have an idea of what might happen. I would ask him. It sounds like a really interesting project though and there are probably quite different ways to tune that pipe to get a great sound. I just dont know though.
Uriah
I suppose you could try a mini model with a small Tang Band driver or another good but inexpensive driver and some PVC plumbing pipe. Then you could compare the differences and get an idea of what would happen. I am no speaker guru and a speaker guru might not even know the answer to that one, but I bet Planet10 would have an idea of what might happen. I would ask him. It sounds like a really interesting project though and there are probably quite different ways to tune that pipe to get a great sound. I just dont know though.
Uriah
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