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Old 7th September 2013, 08:42 PM   #251
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It's hard to tell from the web page exactly what technology resistors these are, but I am guessing wirewound. If the tolerance and temperature coefficient are better, they should be better quality for audio applications. In theory. I can't promise they will sound better.
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Old 7th September 2013, 09:53 PM   #252
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wirewound? with such precision of .01% i believe its pretty tough to achieve such values with generic wirewound. If you can see below there is noise performance of .025uV/V which is pretty impressive.
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Old 7th September 2013, 10:11 PM   #253
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Wirewounds can be much better than many people think. Bulk metal foil resistors are pretty much miniaturized wirewounds; both types typically use similar nickel-chromium alloys as the resistive elements. Both types have superior voltage coefficients to metal film; a subtle and often overlooked factor in resistor technology.

I generally use wirewound resistors where more power dissipation is required, such as power supplies, emitter resistors and speaker crossovers. Metal film resistors are much more commonly available these days but decades ago miniature wirewounds were the technology of choice for precision resistors.

Last edited by Damon Hill; 7th September 2013 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 8th September 2013, 12:23 AM   #254
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Default Everything counts

From what I have seen there is nothing wrong with wirewound. In fact earlier we saw a post from Uriah who had experimented only to find that diy wirewound made with Manganin wire in a non inductive wiring design beats hands down even the naked foil. I have bought some Manganin wire but have yet to build and test the resistors. Makes sense. This is the best material made for resistors and is used to make reference resistors used to calibrate everything else. If this works as well as Uriah claims, it will be the price performance reference standard for low value resistors (<100r).
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Old 21st September 2013, 06:33 AM   #255
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how about graphite resistors? do they have more noise? I see duelund has graphite resistors for the crossovers. There should be a reason why graphite sounds good..
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Old 21st September 2013, 06:37 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damon Hill View Post
Wirewounds can be much better than many people think. Bulk metal foil resistors are pretty much miniaturized wirewounds; both types typically use similar nickel-chromium alloys as the resistive elements. Both types have superior voltage coefficients to metal film; a subtle and often overlooked factor in resistor technology.

I generally use wirewound resistors where more power dissipation is required, such as power supplies, emitter resistors and speaker crossovers. Metal film resistors are much more commonly available these days but decades ago miniature wirewounds were the technology of choice for precision resistors.
in general which one do you prefer?
MFR Electronic components ( MRR )
or
MFR Electronic components ( RNC )
http://www.mfrelectronics.com/mou.jpg

for MRR in the datasheet they have specified the noise performance but in RNC they have not but the RNC clearly looks like Vishay Bulk Metal foil http://www.partsconnexion.com/media/...ors/vishay.jpg

I believe vishay doesnt over etch the highs like many users in this thread have stated...

I can try to get these resistors somehow but would like to know which one of the above would be best for audio.
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Old 22nd September 2013, 11:42 PM   #257
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http://www.isabellenhuette.de/filead...taende/PBH.PDF
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Old 30th December 2013, 02:59 AM   #258
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Default Manganin - Outstanding!

Quote:
Originally Posted by udailey View Post
Ebay of course. Its not to expensive.
Nichrome is better for higher resistances but nearly impossible to solder to.
Manganin can be had at about 350ohms per meter. I use a small cardboard tube with double sided tape on it to wind around. Find a winding tool with a turn counter on it. The kind the tattoo artists use to wind transformers with for their guns. Then experiment with how many turns it takes yo get 1k, 10k, etc.
There is an enamal insulation on the wire that must be super heated to be removed. Very hot soldering iron does the trick. I don't use sandpaper as the wire is to thin.
Google noninductive winding. Its not hard to do.
After getting acquainted with the process its about 15minutes of work per resistor mainly cuz the wire is soooooo fine. Around 46-54AWG. You DO need a big magnifying glass. So its a pain but its a hobby so its enjoyable too. Masochistic I guess!
Uriah
Followed your suggestion for winding Manganin. Worked perfectly once I learned how to deal with wire I really can hardly see!
I built 2 x 60r resistors for I/V stage of my 1541a DAC. Went with bifilar winding to make it simple for first shot. I used a short piece of round wood (end of a disposable chop stick) covered with 2 sided tape. I drilled a small hole through each end to attach firmly copper lead out wires. This step is important as the 46 gauge wire is so thin it is easy to break, so you want the leads to be completely firm so the Manganin sees no stress if the leads move. I had tried many different commercial resistors. My Manganin resistors replaced Caddock TF020.

Immediate success. They dropped the sound floor resulting in much more micro info to appear. Yet another step forward in quest for natural relaxed but detailed sound. A lot of noise between instruments disappears. Bass extended. Sound stage on some recordings much wider.

Each resistor took about 6" of wire, so I have used 1 foot of my 100 foot roll. That means my resistors cost 20 cents each. Given your finding that they leave naked foil behind, and my experience that they dust best Caddock, Amtrans etc then I expect they are in the league of Rohpoint advocated by ThorstenL and OliverMei. Big difference in price however. I believe when I asked for a quote, they were in the range of $35 each.

I suspect that resistors of this quality have the biggest impact with tiny signals early in the chain. So my I/V is a big impact. I do not use a preamp or any other resistive device in the direct signal path. Passive linestage is now based on Dave Slagle's amazing autoformers. I am now intrigued to build resistors for the key locations of my amps.

I am writing after listening for about 2 hours. There is no other item that has not developed and opened up during the first 100 hrs so there may be more to come.
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Old 30th December 2013, 05:21 AM   #259
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It's good to see you putting the thin Manganin wire to good use - there's a bit of a 'knack' to it and once you get used to it ....

I have found that the Rhopoint resistors are actually a slightly 'better sound' than our hand made ones - perhaps it's the lower noise or something, but the low level details seemed a bit clearer - not that much in it actually.

I use their Econister range ones and they're about $6 ea, but the small quantity surcharge is about $30, I think - I didn't find any difference in the sound with the 0.01% tolerance ones.

I also found that using the Isotan wire (also known as Constantan) to make diy resistors ended up quite similar to the sound of the 'Naked' Vishays (TC 2575s) - surprise, surprise.

The English Manganin has a slightly different sound also (a bit brighter, up top freqs) and nearly died with the prices - same thing with Shore's in the States.

If I win Tattslotto, I'll lash out and see about a couple of Dave Slagle's valve copper resistors - I tried winding copper Rs here with #32 enamelled transformer wire but mixed success - a bit dull and slow sound - (a not very precise description, sorry)

It's all good interesting diy stuff, eh!
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Old 30th December 2013, 03:38 PM   #260
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jh
thanks for the comparison info.
My Slagle autoformers were a little dull and lifeless when they first went in. After 50-100hrs a totally different beast and quite excellent. Maybe your copper resistor just needs to settle in for 100 hrs?
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