You can use them anywhere you like, within their power ratings. I'd start with feedback resistors, then input stage resistors and finally any signal path resistor in terms of most important locations.
I found few resistors http://www.mfrelectronics.com/MRR.pdf which is box type and has tight tolerances upto 5ppm for temp but the interesting part is it has
Noise < 0.025 microV/V RMS (> - 32dB) which is pretty interesting. I have checked the z201 vishay which has 0.01microV/v RMS. I found all other CMF or RN65 series Vishay having noise as much as .1microV
what do you say about that box resistor? It should be good isnt it?
Noise < 0.025 microV/V RMS (> - 32dB) which is pretty interesting. I have checked the z201 vishay which has 0.01microV/v RMS. I found all other CMF or RN65 series Vishay having noise as much as .1microV
what do you say about that box resistor? It should be good isnt it?
No actually we can do a group buy as they give only to aerospace companies.
There is another series http://www.mfrelectronics.com/mou.jpg which exactly looks like Vishay Bulk foil may be the Technology OEM or OET( Original equipment technology) is same but I believe these could be at least half cheaper..
Vishay Resistors
There is another series http://www.mfrelectronics.com/mou.jpg which exactly looks like Vishay Bulk foil may be the Technology OEM or OET( Original equipment technology) is same but I believe these could be at least half cheaper..
Vishay Resistors
do you mean to say that the MRR sound better than any metal film?
im just confused that does it generally improves the transparency in sound?
Separation in instruments?
lower distortion?
precise sound stage?
Noise reduction in HF?
is it very much perceived? I do have scanspeak drivers which are pretty good all finest nuances will be heard so will I find considerable difference to move to Zfoil or these Mrr resistors?
I can't promise anything.
I believe bulk metal foil resistors are the best resistor technology and should help provide better quality sound, but some people don't hear it that way. Certainly you'll need excellent quality components in the rest of your system, especially speakers, to hear what may be very slight differences in the sound to different peoples' ears.
To the extent I can afford it (and often I can't) I use the best component that'll fit and work in an application, and hope for the best results. I've never heard a significant improvement just from changing a single component; usually it takes it takes multiple changes and modifications, or even a whole different circuit board and components to be clearly audible. More often I have to settle for metal film (or wirewound) resistors, even relatively generic 100 ppm grade parts, but I think they'll sound better than carbon film or metal oxide technologies. And some people still prefer the sound of carbon composition resistors, which measure much worse than any of the above. Capacitors are a whole different subject, and much harder to qualify and quantify.
If you want the best (theoretical) resistor component, use Vishay's z-foil bulk foil resistors; they cost more but have the absolute best stability I know of and should contribute the least distortion possible. You may even like the sound that results, but I can't promise that.
Remember that Vishay makes the foil; licensed manufacturers build the resistors. Generally they should all be identical, but maybe you'll hear a difference. Or not.
Im very serious listener and listen to very very low volumes as well. I believe I can perceive the difference.
I just would love to know that these MRR would be somewhat better than the general 1% metal film resistors? I just want to get MRRs
Wirewounds can be much better than many people think. Bulk metal foil resistors are pretty much miniaturized wirewounds; both types typically use similar nickel-chromium alloys as the resistive elements. Both types have superior voltage coefficients to metal film; a subtle and often overlooked factor in resistor technology.
I generally use wirewound resistors where more power dissipation is required, such as power supplies, emitter resistors and speaker crossovers. Metal film resistors are much more commonly available these days but decades ago miniature wirewounds were the technology of choice for precision resistors.
I generally use wirewound resistors where more power dissipation is required, such as power supplies, emitter resistors and speaker crossovers. Metal film resistors are much more commonly available these days but decades ago miniature wirewounds were the technology of choice for precision resistors.
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Everything counts
From what I have seen there is nothing wrong with wirewound. In fact earlier we saw a post from Uriah who had experimented only to find that diy wirewound made with Manganin wire in a non inductive wiring design beats hands down even the naked foil. I have bought some Manganin wire but have yet to build and test the resistors. Makes sense. This is the best material made for resistors and is used to make reference resistors used to calibrate everything else. If this works as well as Uriah claims, it will be the price performance reference standard for low value resistors (<100r).
From what I have seen there is nothing wrong with wirewound. In fact earlier we saw a post from Uriah who had experimented only to find that diy wirewound made with Manganin wire in a non inductive wiring design beats hands down even the naked foil. I have bought some Manganin wire but have yet to build and test the resistors. Makes sense. This is the best material made for resistors and is used to make reference resistors used to calibrate everything else. If this works as well as Uriah claims, it will be the price performance reference standard for low value resistors (<100r).
in general which one do you prefer?
MFR Electronic components ( MRR )
or
MFR Electronic components ( RNC )
http://www.mfrelectronics.com/mou.jpg
for MRR in the datasheet they have specified the noise performance but in RNC they have not but the RNC clearly looks like Vishay Bulk Metal foil http://www.partsconnexion.com/media/product/resistors/vishay.jpg
I believe vishay doesnt over etch the highs like many users in this thread have stated...
I can try to get these resistors somehow but would like to know which one of the above would be best for audio.
Manganin - Outstanding!
Followed your suggestion for winding Manganin. Worked perfectly once I learned how to deal with wire I really can hardly see!
I built 2 x 60r resistors for I/V stage of my 1541a DAC. Went with bifilar winding to make it simple for first shot. I used a short piece of round wood (end of a disposable chop stick) covered with 2 sided tape. I drilled a small hole through each end to attach firmly copper lead out wires. This step is important as the 46 gauge wire is so thin it is easy to break, so you want the leads to be completely firm so the Manganin sees no stress if the leads move. I had tried many different commercial resistors. My Manganin resistors replaced Caddock TF020.
Immediate success. They dropped the sound floor resulting in much more micro info to appear. Yet another step forward in quest for natural relaxed but detailed sound. A lot of noise between instruments disappears. Bass extended. Sound stage on some recordings much wider.
Each resistor took about 6" of wire, so I have used 1 foot of my 100 foot roll. That means my resistors cost 20 cents each. Given your finding that they leave naked foil behind, and my experience that they dust best Caddock, Amtrans etc then I expect they are in the league of Rohpoint advocated by ThorstenL and OliverMei. Big difference in price however. I believe when I asked for a quote, they were in the range of $35 each.
I suspect that resistors of this quality have the biggest impact with tiny signals early in the chain. So my I/V is a big impact. I do not use a preamp or any other resistive device in the direct signal path. Passive linestage is now based on Dave Slagle's amazing autoformers. I am now intrigued to build resistors for the key locations of my amps.
I am writing after listening for about 2 hours. There is no other item that has not developed and opened up during the first 100 hrs so there may be more to come.
Uriah
Followed your suggestion for winding Manganin. Worked perfectly once I learned how to deal with wire I really can hardly see!
I built 2 x 60r resistors for I/V stage of my 1541a DAC. Went with bifilar winding to make it simple for first shot. I used a short piece of round wood (end of a disposable chop stick) covered with 2 sided tape. I drilled a small hole through each end to attach firmly copper lead out wires. This step is important as the 46 gauge wire is so thin it is easy to break, so you want the leads to be completely firm so the Manganin sees no stress if the leads move. I had tried many different commercial resistors. My Manganin resistors replaced Caddock TF020.
Immediate success. They dropped the sound floor resulting in much more micro info to appear. Yet another step forward in quest for natural relaxed but detailed sound. A lot of noise between instruments disappears. Bass extended. Sound stage on some recordings much wider.
Each resistor took about 6" of wire, so I have used 1 foot of my 100 foot roll. That means my resistors cost 20 cents each. Given your finding that they leave naked foil behind, and my experience that they dust best Caddock, Amtrans etc then I expect they are in the league of Rohpoint advocated by ThorstenL and OliverMei. Big difference in price however. I believe when I asked for a quote, they were in the range of $35 each.
I suspect that resistors of this quality have the biggest impact with tiny signals early in the chain. So my I/V is a big impact. I do not use a preamp or any other resistive device in the direct signal path. Passive linestage is now based on Dave Slagle's amazing autoformers. I am now intrigued to build resistors for the key locations of my amps.
I am writing after listening for about 2 hours. There is no other item that has not developed and opened up during the first 100 hrs so there may be more to come.
It's good to see you putting the thin Manganin wire to good use - there's a bit of a 'knack' to it and once you get used to it ....
I have found that the Rhopoint resistors are actually a slightly 'better sound' than our hand made ones - perhaps it's the lower noise or something, but the low level details seemed a bit clearer - not that much in it actually.
I use their Econister range ones and they're about $6 ea, but the small quantity surcharge is about $30, I think - I didn't find any difference in the sound with the 0.01% tolerance ones.
I also found that using the Isotan wire (also known as Constantan) to make diy resistors ended up quite similar to the sound of the 'Naked' Vishays (TC 2575s) - surprise, surprise.
The English Manganin has a slightly different sound also (a bit brighter, up top freqs) and nearly died with the prices - same thing with Shore's in the States.
If I win Tattslotto, I'll lash out and see about a couple of Dave Slagle's valve copper resistors - I tried winding copper Rs here with #32 enamelled transformer wire but mixed success - a bit dull and slow sound - (a not very precise description, sorry)
It's all good interesting diy stuff, eh!
I have found that the Rhopoint resistors are actually a slightly 'better sound' than our hand made ones - perhaps it's the lower noise or something, but the low level details seemed a bit clearer - not that much in it actually.
I use their Econister range ones and they're about $6 ea, but the small quantity surcharge is about $30, I think - I didn't find any difference in the sound with the 0.01% tolerance ones.
I also found that using the Isotan wire (also known as Constantan) to make diy resistors ended up quite similar to the sound of the 'Naked' Vishays (TC 2575s) - surprise, surprise.
The English Manganin has a slightly different sound also (a bit brighter, up top freqs) and nearly died with the prices - same thing with Shore's in the States.
If I win Tattslotto, I'll lash out and see about a couple of Dave Slagle's valve copper resistors - I tried winding copper Rs here with #32 enamelled transformer wire but mixed success - a bit dull and slow sound - (a not very precise description, sorry)
It's all good interesting diy stuff, eh!
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