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Old 5th February 2003, 10:07 AM   #111
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Default PIECE DE RESISTANCE.

Hi,

Quote:
Why don't you try it and then decide if I am kidding you.
How do you actually test this?

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Old 5th February 2003, 10:40 AM   #112
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Default Re: PIECE DE RESISTANCE.

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
Hi,



How do you actually test this?

Cheers,
---------------------------------------------
Two ways.

For sometime, I have experimented with resistor type and direction for buffer resistors from opamps and I found a difference (from being nice and being unaccetable). This is usually the last step in an upgrade and I have accumulated enough experience to choose empirically resistor type. The differences are as great as changing coupling capacitors which I try to avoid.

I also carried out listening tests on a four inout passive preamp with 3.3k ouput resistors, mounting them in R,L pairs in opposite directions with two types of resistors. The differences were quite obvious.
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Old 5th February 2003, 01:17 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by fmak

------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't you try it and then decide if I am kidding you.
If you have this kind of attitude to comments by others, why should other people believe your observations?
I am bit disappointed that you didn't notice a different tone in my reaction, which supposed to be facetios in character. I take seriously all comments of that type and definitely will test the resistors to see the difference.

"You must be kidding" was directed to the fact that one can easily deal with direction in capacitors, especially when it can be measured and not too many caps are usually used in an average circuit. The resistors however, are totally different cap of tea. I always placed them the same way in the circuits (according to lettering or code), however never bothered to check the sound in two different orientations, it's just seemed like a lot of work and I always doubted the actual difference. And now you say that there is a "bigger consistent difference in resistors than capacitors". I can only hope that you are kidding me again, but something tells me that you might be actually right.
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Old 5th February 2003, 01:35 PM   #114
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Default RE:PIECE DE RESISTANCE.

Hi,

Quote:
And now you say that there is a "bigger consistent difference in resistors than capacitors".
But how can this be?

While I perfectly understand that wires are directive,how can,say a MF resistor end up being directive?

Surely,if you consider the total lenght of the leadout wires that is left in the circuit this should have neglectable/inaudible impact on the sound?
If so,we're left with the resistive element itself.
Now,if you consider how this is applied to the core element I fail to see how this ends up being directive?

This has me puzzled...

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Old 5th February 2003, 01:35 PM   #115
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Default That Directional Thing Again....

Hi Peter,
Years ago I did some brief testing to determine directivity in resistors, but due to some other variables I did not come to a solid conclusion at the time, although I do fully expect it to be true.

Another of my untried but thought about experiments is to place two resistors in series or parallel in reversed directions, more especially in circuit positions where they are exposed to AC signal - input, output and NFB paths.

I dare say that this might be well revealled in your gainclone, and due to the minimum of external components this ought to be a clear experiment, and one that I meant to suggest to you a good while back when you annouced it.

I expect that this is a factor in the variance in your gainclone examples.

I have also experimented with making conductors non-directional by using two wires twisted together, and the strands in reverse directions in AC positions and found it to make a significant difference.

Eric.

PS - You mention cones under your gainclones - have you tried springs ?.
A colleague reported to me today that he got REALLY good results with springs under his CDP.
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Old 5th February 2003, 01:45 PM   #116
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Default Re: RE:PIECE DE RESISTANCE.

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove

While I perfectly understand that wires are directive,how can,say a MF resistor end up being directive?
Does that mean you have some theory about this? I have never
seen any attempt at explaining why the direction might matter,
so I would be very interested in such an explanation.
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Old 5th February 2003, 02:13 PM   #117
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Daniel
[B]

I am bit disappointed that you didn't notice a different tone in my reaction, which supposed to be facetios in character. I take seriously all comments of that type and definitely will test the resistors to see the difference.
------------------------------------------------------

I am happy with you reply. Directionality of resistors came to me by accident some years ago in constructing a Maranztz 8 (Imporoved?). There was a 100R or 1k series resistance at the output and I used Holco 1/8s. The resultant sound was too bright and I couldn't extract the valve sound. After some messing around I reversed the direction of the Holcos for no logical reason. The sound changed and the over brightness was gone! This was the most extreme case I have encountered. However, in most cases, to me there is clearly a right or wrong direction. This is most prominent in Assemblage higher end stuff where they used cheapo series protection resistors in place of audiophiles ones elsewhere.

Let us know your finding.
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Old 5th February 2003, 03:21 PM   #118
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Default DIRECTIONS.

Hi,

Quote:
Does that mean you have some theory about this?
Not just me but the entire audio industry I would think...

I made life a bit easier on myself and let A.J.van den Hul do the talking:

FUSION AND HYBRIDS

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Old 5th February 2003, 03:40 PM   #119
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So I did some tests and here's what I found out. There is definitely a difference. It is not very big one, but it's enough to present a different tonal balance. I tried Rikken, Vishay VTA and old Holco. All those resistors sounded a bit different depending on orientation. The difference is probably best described as one direction is more lean and dull sounding, the other is more open, with more depth and better highs extention. What I found, mostly with Rikkens, is that in one direction the highs were somewhat masked by the rest of the spectrum and were not really defined on their own, while in the opposite direction, they were presented in much better way, with distinctive pace and resolution.

As to comparing Vishay VTA 55 and old Holco, they sounded very similar, with Holcos more dry and without air in the highs, while Vishay sounding more refined. Both confirmed my previuos findings of somwhat mellow character without going to extremes in any direction. Rikkens, OTOH were more refreshing, with highs dominating, yet not bothering in any way. Depending on the balance of the rest of the system, all those resistors might find their place.

Here's the pic of a simple test circuit, I did in one minute. I encourage anybody to try it, you don't even have to solder, just put the resistor in and it will stay in place by spring action. I used 10K values at the input of my Aleph X, but any other value is OK. I had 20K Vishays, yet I could easily compare them to 10k resistors and volume didn't change by much.
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Old 5th February 2003, 04:55 PM   #120
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Default Re: Re: RE:PIECE DE RESISTANCE.

Quote:
Originally posted by Christer


Does that mean you have some theory about this? I have never
seen any attempt at explaining why the direction might matter,
so I would be very interested in such an explanation.
-------------------------------------------

If cable has direction, why not resistors. You are talking about microns of resistive or semiconductive material. In the case of spirals (cuts) does this have an effect?
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