Best electrolytic capacitors

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-04-17 6:16 pm

about
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/183335-modified-follower-99-hf-transistors-28.html
(start from post #272) there are to find addiional interesting measuring results of various caps

Dzius · 2011-04-18 8:02 am

From that what VladimirK wrote star capacitor connection is a very good one solution for stacking many caps. And it's important to keep wires as short as possible to avoid resonanses. So I draw PCBs for such arrangment. You can find it in one of my attachments ELNA15x1000uFCapStar.pdf
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/137145-f3-builders-thread-32.html

IZHAKKATZ · 2011-04-19 10:57 am

Hi all,
Probably a silly quastion since price seems too low but would these:
18,000Mfd , 50 V ECOS1HP183EA 35MMX45MM caps work for an F5 PS?
Radial Capacitors
thanks
IK

Luke · 2011-04-19 11:21 am

I just reformed some snap-in caps at the exact voltage (63V), they are Elnas for audio. I used a 50K resistor and left them over night. In the morning I discharged with a 300 ohm, then 50 ohm then 10 ohm resistor.
I charged them and 24 hours later the voltage had dropped to 45 volts. All 12 caps with in a volt of each other. Doesn't this seem poor for high quality caps. I dont know the age, but they look very good and unused.
Are they good?

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-05-11 9:15 am

several additional URLs arround this topic:
Badcaps Forums - Salvation For Your Hardware!
What happens to cheap Caps after 30 years in a hot console? - Badcaps Forums
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/172968-cyrus-two-non-polar-cap.html
Capacitor Brand Voodoo - Let's clear the air

nezbleu · 2011-05-12 4:24 am

IZHAKKATZ said:
Hi all,
Probably a silly quastion since price seems too low but would these:
18,000Mfd , 50 V ECOS1HP183EA 35MMX45MM caps work for an F5 PS?
Radial Capacitors
thanks
IK

I don't know the requirements of an F5, but I have used those very caps (from the same supplier) in my Linkwitz Plutos. They are excellent capacitors, and at that price you can parallel a bunch of them.

ivodonchev · 2011-07-19 5:01 pm

I have used Daewoo/Partsnic RM caps in signal path applications and really liked them. Give them 50 hours and you will be shocked what can these small capacitors. They are very cheap and sound excellent.

FastEddy · 2011-07-19 5:43 pm

Future Tech: Graphene and water = huge capacitance in multiple Farads with lightning response, full charge / discharge in milli-seconds:

Caption: "Graphene sheets. Credit: Gengping Jiang"

"Graphite + water = the future of energy storage" - PhysOrg.com Newsletter of Week 28 July, 2011

"A combination of two ordinary materials – graphite and water – could produce energy storage systems that perform on par with lithium ion batteries, but recharge in a matter of seconds and have an almost indefinite lifespan. ...

... “The technique is very simple and can easily be scaled up. When we discovered it, we thought it was unbelievable. We’re taking two basic, inexpensive materials – water and graphite – and making this new nanomaterial with amazing properties,” said Dr. Dan Li [of the Monash University (Australia) Department of Materials Engineering].

When used in energy devices, graphene gel significantly outperforms current carbon-based technology, both in terms of the amount of charge stored and how fast the charges can be delivered. ..."

I believe this capacitor / battery could be duplicated on just about anyone's DIY bench. The manufacture of Graphene sheets is a bit tricky, but a DIY engineer discovered how to on his home bench. Then, just add water? = high value capacitor with fast recovery?

There is also a Graphene capacitor of many Farads capacitance that is a long ribbon that shows huge promise ... made by the Chinese late last year.

Almost all of this research is being done by small teams and individuals working with crude laboratory equipment ... basically DIY projects. That physorg.com email news letter is keeping tabs on all of the developments ... fun reading!

gto127 · 2011-07-20 12:06 am

Didn't the black gate caps everyone used to rave about use some type of graphite formula? Mabye they were ahead of there time.

Erlend Sæterdal · 2011-07-20 4:40 am

gto127 said:
Didn't the black gate caps everyone used to rave about use some type of graphite formula? Mabye they were ahead of there time.

The Black Gate had Graphite across the electrolyte. In fact it was like an resistor across . One of my friends measured that the Black Gates did not work as an electrolyte at all. But do not ask me, for me it is just a rumour.

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-08-10 8:47 pm

About
Capacitors with Large Capacitance :: ELECTRONICON Kondensatoren GmbH
you will find non polar caps (without electrolytic fluid) up to 19.000uF.
The ultimate solution for audio amp power supplies, if space and money doesn't matter. ICAR have similar caps, but only up to approximately 2000 uF.

gto127 · 2011-10-11 5:56 am

I just wanted to share some opinions and experience on electrolytics that I have gained through several recapping projects over the last couple years.
Project 1: KPS20i CD player- I originally intended to recap this with original caps only to find they weren't available in original format. Nichicon claimed to replace the VX with VR & that they were equivalent. I recapped main supply with the VR series only to find the sound to be totally different. Bass was much thinner & the sound was not nearly as smooth. I did some research to find that the VR series & VX series have totally different specs. The VX have a much lower DC leakage current which I now beleive to be one of the secrets to the smoothness & powerful bass on this unit. I did more research to find that the Nichicon fine gold series has almost the exact same specs as the older VX series. I replaced all possible with fine gold series & the higher values with VX axial caps(Had to jumper some of these to fit).Now sound is smooth & bass is deep just like factory. I also experimented with replacing sprague 515D with Elna similac II in output section but ended going back with the sprague. Although the Elna is a surperior cap,. Krell had fine tuned the frequency response of this around the spragues. This leads me to believe you are better off not modifying a well designed unit on the output stages due to manufacturer bypassing these with high end film caps for flat response.
Project 2:Krell CD-DSP-I replaced the 470uf red caps at regulator stages with Nichicon Muse caps. This seemed to increase bass response of unit. These are also large low leakage caps simular to ones in first project .Bass is not as deep as KPS but definately deeper than original.
Project 3:Nakamichi PA-1 Power amp. I began this project by just recapping different stages with originals one at time to see which caps made the most difference in sound quality-basically I was just going from a old cap to a newer one of exact same type here. I was surprised with results.. Replacing main power caps made almost no difference,replacing coupling caps made little difference. The huge difference on this unit came from replacing the 470uf muse which appears to be on some type of feedback circuit(I don't fully understand the circuit on this one) C105(Left Channel) and 205(right channel and 705 center.
My next upgrade to this unit was replacing the standard coupling caos with higher end ones. I tried Nichicon KW series)(I have seen these used as coupling caps in alot of units) I also tried Elna similac II based on reading this thread & to me the similacs are superior when used as coupling cap on this unit. Clearer vocals & smoother sound overall.
My next project will be recapping CD pickup assembly with several differnt types of caps. It is a Phillips CDM1 mk II. any ideas on this one would be appreciated. Not sure to go with low leakage or low esr type on this. I will share results once I get throough it.

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-10-11 8:52 am

gto127 said:
I just wanted to share some opinions and experience on electrolytics that I have gained through several recapping projects over the last couple years.
Project 1: KPS20i CD player- I originally intended to recap this with original caps only to find they weren't available in original format. Nichicon claimed to replace the VX with VR & that they were equivalent. I recapped main supply with the VR series only to find the sound to be totally different. Bass was much thinner & the sound was not nearly as smooth. I did some research to find that the VR series & VX series have totally different specs. The VX have a much lower DC leakage current which I now beleive to be one of the secrets to the smoothness & powerful bass on this unit. I did more research to find that the Nichicon fine gold series has almost the exact same specs as the older VX series. I replaced all possible with fine gold series & the higher values with VX axial caps(Had to jumper some of these to fit).Now sound is smooth & bass is deep just like factory. I also experimented with replacing sprague 515D with Elna similac II in output section but ended going back with the sprague. Although the Elna is a surperior cap,. Krell had fine tuned the frequency response of this around the spragues. This leads me to believe you are better off not modifying a well designed unit on the output stages due to manufacturer bypassing these with high end film caps for flat response.
Project 2:Krell CD-DSP-I replaced the 470uf red caps at regulator stages with Nichicon Muse caps. This seemed to increase bass response of unit. These are also large low leakage caps simular to ones in first project .Bass is not as deep as KPS but definately deeper than original.
Project 3:Nakamichi PA-1 Power amp. I began this project by just recapping different stages with originals one at time to see which caps made the most difference in sound quality-basically I was just going from a old cap to a newer one of exact same type here. I was surprised with results.. Replacing main power caps made almost no difference,replacing coupling caps made little difference. The huge difference on this unit came from replacing the 470uf muse which appears to be on some type of feedback circuit(I don't fully understand the circuit on this one) C105(Left Channel) and 205(right channel and 705 center.
My next upgrade to this unit was replacing the standard coupling caos with higher end ones. I tried Nichicon KW series)(I have seen these used as coupling caps in alot of units) I also tried Elna similac II based on reading this thread & to me the similacs are superior when used as coupling cap on this unit. Clearer vocals & smoother sound overall.
My next project will be recapping CD pickup assembly with several differnt types of caps. It is a Phillips CDM1 mk II. any ideas on this one would be appreciated. Not sure to go with low leakage or low esr type on this. I will share results once I get throough it.

good informations - thank you therefore. Check out also the results from VladimirK about follow URLs:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/188268-f3-help.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/151681-output-capacitor-zen-v4.html

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-10-11 10:20 am

gto127 · 2011-10-11 8:12 pm

Sorry I listed wrong caps (Quote 352) I replaced for CD-DSP. I actually replaced 1000uf uf red caps not the 470uf. The 470 uf caps are in output section. I would not reccomend replacing them with anything but originals.

danielwritesbac · 2011-10-12 3:59 am

I think that you'll notice its faster to replace power, local decoupling, nfb, output, input caps in that order. Some of the signal caps take a (5 best ideas, choose 1) type of approach, which is another way to say "a quick contest of peers."

So, its just really handy to have good clean power before making choices on signal.

In your post above stating that Elna Silmic II is a superior cap, I must say that a component is only as good as its application. I'd have probably used cerafine//small film cap (the definitive "classic combo") as one of 5 good options to interview.

There seems to be an omission.
If something like Silmic II or a huge power cap or something unusual happens to win a contest of peers because of better tone, that indicates the device being repaired has either a power circuit issue or it has an impedance mismatch at either input or output or both.
When you have a "tone challenge" do please be sure to apply a fix at the right spot first.

After that, then feel free to do whatever it takes for full function. That should be a lot easier, because applying a fix, first at the right spot, is more effective or at least a greatly helpful head start.

gto127 · 2011-10-12 4:36 am

When refering to it as a superior cap it was in comparison to sprague 515D under normal conditions. I was just saying that the sprague sounder better in this instance because Krell engineers had bypassed the sprague with a couple of different film caps for best frequency output. By changing to the Similac it was throwing that balance off slightly giving the edge to the sprague in this instance. I also referred to the sprague on the Nakamichi AMP in a coupling application compared to the Nichicon but only tried the 2 caps. I'm sure there may have been a better combination If I had more to try.

danielwritesbac · 2011-10-12 6:22 am

gto127 said:
I'm sure there may have been a better combination If I had more to try.

Yes, but its progressively diminishing returns for your effort.
That's why I mentioned just 5 peers for comparison. Some people would try 40 options but that's not going to make a significant further increase in quality.

A following touch up effort by quickly interviewing some "tiny value film cap" options can make a further increase in quality. Again, the choosing amongst 5 peers approach seems to be effective and labor efficient.

Basically, when you've already got it "really good" then significantly better doesn't exist--really when you've improved the quality already, there's just a very tiny margin left to play with.

P.S.
Small changes can make all the songs sound new, but this effect is very temporary and may be noise. So, watch out for that problem. This is a case where you want to re-analyze, choosing "good" rather than "startling" and when both options exist, perform more lengthy testing to remove any temporary stunts that make ears get tired. Clear is great, compression isn't.

tiefbassuebertr · 2012-06-04 8:37 am

Mundorf's M-Lytic Caps from Germany

Are there already experience with Mundorf's M-Lytic caps from follow URL ?
Mundorf M-lytic AG+ Capacitors homepage

Very interesting is the very high CV product (sizes for 22000uF/63V only 35x70 mm) and very low ESR at the same time.

Thank you for reporting

Erlend Sæterdal · 2012-06-04 12:35 pm

Thin paper give bad sound

Best electrolytic capacitors

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Attachments

Member