Looking good. You've got many happy hours ahead.
Finally as the next generation is here my MKV:s are playing..... great!!!
Waiting for MKVII
The difference between Mk5 and earlier versions was markedly improved. Using the new SB drivers in the Mk6 is less dramatically so. I really had no intention to do a Mk6, except I was aware of the existence of the SB driver and had some samples for a while and knew that it would work in the same box alignment and as such was an alternative option as the box design required was the same. It does have a few advantages, such as raised/exposed spider (which the Peerless had) and the vented pole (which the Peerless does no have) and hence the SB should have the Voice Coils running cooler - and this from the beginning has been a primary aim of the Elsinores, keeping Voice Coil temperature as low as possible and hence very low dynamic compression (jump factor). There are other advantages, the SB has remarkably low VC inductance, a good thing, and the Thiele-Small Parameters are better balanced than the Peerless.
So when somebody, two guys actually, committed $5000 to do the Mk6 (and put half that up as cash immediately), it just seemed to happen.
Hope that helps explain things.
Cheers, Joe
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Thanks!
Yes they are all flush mounted. As the tweeter is about the diameter as the rubber ring on the others it was rather easy to get it look "right". There is a thin small black coloured washer/ring between the tweeter and the outside shape. Works pretty well.
Plays really really well!! (Although I am in silence looking forward to the MKVII maybe with an enhanced tweeter with som more crispiness, as I am in some way spoiled with magneto/electro-stats and Thiel tweeters)
Well, here is a close-up that show a little bit more. Sorry to say, the light and the Iphone5S together doesn´t make a good picture. With less glitter and even from any distance it actually look pretty good. The "white" and grey dots/lines etc in the picture does not exist IRL.
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Your waveguides have arrived and look absolutely beautiful. Do I really need to install them on the tweeters? They'd make a great conversation piece as is.
First the answer is yes, you must mount them.
Second, you could always order more for the conversation piece.
Cheers, Joe
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Why I might be the happiest guy here...
So...after all the crap I gave everyone about the HDS tweeter, I finally bought a new amp...a Parasound, and unless I have lost my mind...my Adcom amps were the problem.
If fact I simply cannot praise these tweeters enough! I actually don't want to post this so soon after getting the new amp and switching back to the HDS tweeters, but it was so obvious the harshness before and the absolutely wonderful precision without making my ears bleed I heard after!
Well.....I'm pretty sure I'm, going to be building the Elsinore's...
I'm going to give it a few weeks, but the way this Nomex 164 sounds is mind blowing, especially with a good amp!
If I do build this I will document it well and post pics!
So...after all the crap I gave everyone about the HDS tweeter, I finally bought a new amp...a Parasound, and unless I have lost my mind...my Adcom amps were the problem.
If fact I simply cannot praise these tweeters enough! I actually don't want to post this so soon after getting the new amp and switching back to the HDS tweeters, but it was so obvious the harshness before and the absolutely wonderful precision without making my ears bleed I heard after!
Well.....I'm pretty sure I'm, going to be building the Elsinore's...
I'm going to give it a few weeks, but the way this Nomex 164 sounds is mind blowing, especially with a good amp!
If I do build this I will document it well and post pics!
I had the same epiphony after going to a Monarchy SM70 Pro Class A amp. Not that I was complaining before but the improvement is substantial. So much more subtlety and detail. Some recording which could sound slightly harsh are now a joy. Elsinore,s and Class A are a happy marriage.
Read about the criticality in listening position before. And really, just a few degrees difference in toe make a extrem difference in sound control, positioning of instruments and perspective. Nothing like anything i've owned before. Interesting and nice...
BTW: Three deviations on my version: Tweeters with the same outline the other elements (nicer looks according to me), two ports instead of one for slower air speed, modelling clay on all woofer baskets for resonance damping.
Enjoing my MKV:s with my dual mono NewClassD NCDX Discrete which makes a perfect match - while waiting for the MKVII ��
BTW: Three deviations on my version: Tweeters with the same outline the other elements (nicer looks according to me), two ports instead of one for slower air speed, modelling clay on all woofer baskets for resonance damping.
Enjoing my MKV:s with my dual mono NewClassD NCDX Discrete which makes a perfect match - while waiting for the MKVII ��
The MDF Joe based the original cabinets on would be the most cost effective material. Not a lot out there with similar price for resulting performance.
I used Baltic Birch, but it was far from cheap. Especially using as much as I did to keep the cabinet dimensions the same as the MDF version. That said, I am very happy with the resulting build. Any other plywood may have issues with consistency of the plys and may introduce voids within the layers that are not discovered until you start playing them and resonance occurs due to the voids.
You might want to see what is out there that is considered Marine grade, as this generally insures a consistent material throughout the entire depth and width of the piece. The rub is how easy is it to machine and form into cabinets. There have been a couple guys on the site that have used poured materials such as concrete and the like.
The bamboo sounds intriguing. I have seen a number of commercial designs go that route and the final look is quite nice with the performance to match. My only concern is how easy is it to work with; how easy is it to machine? I will be interested to see if anyone has any experience with the material.
I have been debating about using HDF paneling laminated together (since I can't seem to find it in anything other than 1/8 inch panels) for the sides and back. Not sure how I'd be able to do it, but it is something I have been considering. I'd do something like 3/4 MDF with 1/4 laminate HDF on the outside, or 1/2 inch MDF with 1/4 HDF laminate...etc.
My ACI speakers are made of HDF, and they truly sound like concrete when you knock on them. The problem is finding a HDF supplier.
Hardboard Tempered Panel (Common: 1/8 in. 4 ft. x 8 ft.,; Actual: 0.115 in. x 47.7 in. x 95.7 in.)-832777 - The Home Depot
My ACI speakers are made of HDF, and they truly sound like concrete when you knock on them. The problem is finding a HDF supplier.
Hardboard Tempered Panel (Common: 1/8 in. 4 ft. x 8 ft.,; Actual: 0.115 in. x 47.7 in. x 95.7 in.)-832777 - The Home Depot
Whether it would be the optimum I am unable to answer as I am not familiar with that material. But the question is whether it is better than MDF and quite possibly it would be. But with MDF and its tendency to ring (most materials do), the physical construction using MDF takes that in to account. MDF is the minimum requirement and should not deter anybody to build as it is so available and familiar.
Here is an experiment as to why even MDF can be half good: Take a sheet of MDF and tap it - it will make the expected sound. Cut it in half and make its area half and glue together to double thickness. Now it will sound different and also more dead (but not really dead). Now cut that in half and repeat and it will sound even more dead. Effectively the material is the same, but you have altered its shape and it will eventually end up like a cube and be as dead as you can make MDF. Note again, the amount of material is the same, but it is the shape that has made the difference. This basic principle is behind much of the box design used in the Elsinores.
So the Elsinores were designed with MDF in mind, but not exclusively, and construction to be at its deadest where the Tweeter is mounted and wavelengths are smallest there - note that it approaches a cube like dimension at that point in the box. Take into account the Waveguide and everything, the thickness of the front panel where the Tweeter is mounted is 68mm.
The whole front panel is the next most important, it is rather thick at 43mm, but also note that the square cutouts on the 25mm sub-panel also makes the front panel act less than a panel and breaks up modes... and so on.
The rest of the box uses longitudinal bracing rather than lateral bracing (a la Cook and Fincham of KEF) - It is not perfect but effective for the amount of complexity and also, there are no drivers mounted here.
Keeping the drivers still is paramount, even more than the often mentioned 'box sound' as photographers well understand the idea of 'blur' when something is moving it blurs - hence the ears are the camera and the speakers, especially the drivers, need to be still and stable in order not to blur or smear the sound. This is the primary focus of the Elsinore boxes, keeping the drivers still and stable as much as possible, even more that any box sound. Only the front panel faces the listener, and hence we cannot distinguish the sound from the driver and that of any sound coming of the front panel. While other panels may let of sound, they are not facing the listener, and much of it gets reflected by room boundaries before getting back to the listener. They are delayed in time and also in amplitude and hence gives our ears a good chance of not getting confused and able to focus on what happens on the front panel where the drivers are mounted.
If the alternative material more dense than MDF, does it have fibres or layers that makes it even more dead? Then I would have no objection from using it. But make sure everything follows the shape of the various pieces that makes up the whole box, as the shape of things is as important as the material.
Cheers, Joe
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Joe...I really enjoyed this article...Dynamic Compression
I'm going to need to read it a couple more times to digest it all, but it helped explain a lot why an amplifier could really make a huge difference in why different equipment makes such a big difference in sound!
Any way, THANKS!
I'm going to need to read it a couple more times to digest it all, but it helped explain a lot why an amplifier could really make a huge difference in why different equipment makes such a big difference in sound!
Any way, THANKS!
You should be able to use wood glue to bond two pieces together. I was only able to get Baltic birch in 12mm panels. I used wood glue to bond them together with cauls providing the clamping force to ensure a good, void-free bond. The process worked well as long as the cauls were placed opposite of each other on both sides of the pieces being bonded. Wood glue is amazing stuff.
I had a pair of ACI speakers at one time. Their construction was quite impressive. Very solid cabinets.
As for a supplier, I would avoid the big-box stores and seek out a local wood shop/supplier. They have access to material the big-box stores cannot obtain. My local shop let me talk directly with their wholesale distributor to pick out and order the material. The shop also helped rough cut the pieces to make it far easier to transport and work with all that material.
I was interested to read your ideas about using Bamboo plywood as a more dense material for the cabinets. Rang a supplier here in Melbourne, 2400 x 1200 (8 x 4) sheet 25mm thick (1") was $401.00 each. That’s $800 for 2 sheets. Ended up buying a 3600 x 1200 (12 x 4) sheet at 25mm for $85.70.
Seems far more reasonable.
The attached photo is Day 1 of my Elsinore project.
Seems far more reasonable.
The attached photo is Day 1 of my Elsinore project.
Attachments
Folks:
The folks I'll be building 3 pairs of Elsinores with have access to high end computer-driven wood cutting equipment. I'm planning a petefrontiers-like build, incorporating space for the crossover in a rear compartment. Does anyone happen to have CAD files for their Elsinore build? One of the guys can do the programming, but it'd certainly be easier if we had existing CAD files to work from as opposed to working from the drawings on Joe's site.
Regards,
Scott
The folks I'll be building 3 pairs of Elsinores with have access to high end computer-driven wood cutting equipment. I'm planning a petefrontiers-like build, incorporating space for the crossover in a rear compartment. Does anyone happen to have CAD files for their Elsinore build? One of the guys can do the programming, but it'd certainly be easier if we had existing CAD files to work from as opposed to working from the drawings on Joe's site.
Regards,
Scott