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Old 2nd June 2011, 06:35 PM   #891
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Too bad you can't edit your posts on here - what I wanted to add was: since nobody else is making these available at a lower price I guess you can't really complain that your price is "high"...

Would be like to see some nice waveguides in the $20 - $30 each price range, hopefully someday? That would allow for 1/2 hour of labor each at a generous $30 / hour rate + $15 for materials?
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Old 3rd June 2011, 03:27 AM   #892
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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IMHO, once you see the waveguides Joel is offering, you may not question the price. They are very substantial in all possible ways. I have not weighed them, but each one must be a couple of pounds of thick aluminum. Surprisingly heavy, thick and far larger than one would suspect. The workmanship, especially the powder coat, is really outstanding.

I think you would be hard pressed to find anything close for the money. But I admire the attempt to try!

Let us know what you find out.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 05:59 PM   #893
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critofur,
your comments are pointless, if you want less expensive waveguides make it happen. The logistics and time it takes for a project like this are considerable, your simplified price schedule leaves out many factors. For a large project that may take weeks or months to complete the cost of these waveguides does not seem that important.

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Old 3rd June 2011, 07:02 PM   #894
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critofur View Post
RE: Waveguides... How much time does the machinist actually have to spend on setup? Isn't aluminum cheap? Seems like even $80 a PAIR would be expensive - don't see why they cost so much

Unlike others (apparently), I think it's a good question and not at all "pointless".


The answer is largely down to material cost.

A good quality aluminum "slug" of this size is expensive, then add in finishing and other costs.

For what it is the price is more than fair. It is however a "pointless" material in this application. It really doesn't make much sense to put such a premium material (that isn't really needed, nor confers any additional benefit), attached to such a cheap-@ss material (.. i.e. glue-based "wood").

ABS, HDPE, or the like plastic would do the job as well or better, and wouldn't require finishing. ..Oh, and it would cost a LOT less if sourced properly.

(..see Troel's JA8008 waveguides which are about 50 US for the pair (depending on exchange rates), not including shipping or tax.)
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Old 4th June 2011, 01:43 AM   #895
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Guys you are missing the point.
Its all about "economies of scale".
Making anything on a small scale ( ie less than 1000 units) looks expensive, that's if you add up ALL of the actual time spent making them happen.
Any of the waveguides offered here are, IMHO, an absolute bargin for what they are, and if you factor in the benefits they offer, it's a no brainer.
I spent a lot of time with Joe getting the prototype design into a real easy upgrade package (pull out the felt and slip in the WG), but I would jump at the chance of buying Joel's product had it been available - it looks great! Particularly if you're in the process of building a "new" MK5 speaker as opposed to an upgrade.
Otherwise, try and make them yourself, and leave aside a few weekends to do so. If you're into it, its fun.
Get a pair and enjoy!
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Old 4th June 2011, 05:35 AM   #896
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I wonder how optimized is the current waveguide design? I haven't see raw measurements in the waveguide, are they on Joe's site? Anybody care to post them?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"economies of scale" - yes well on a large scale they'd be $10 a pair - not solid aluminum of course, but they could still be nice quality anodized aluminum 1/4" thick, right? (stamped then polished and anodized or coated?) I know it'd cost a LOT to make the stamping forms and to own such heavy machinery... I wonder if I could forge with a hydraulic press in my garage?

Well I should have access to a CNC for the first time next week. Anybody have the files already prepared? I guess I'd use MDF then basically soak it in polyurethane so it would resist damaging dents/chips.

Aluminum is less than $2 per lb though, and I remember a high school that had a casting setup, they let kids make stuff for free it was so cheap. What about starting with a rough mold then machining the rough casted blanks to reduce cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordikai View Post
critofur,
your comments are pointless, if you want less expensive waveguides make it happen...
Aren't there a lot of machinists out of work that'd be happy to have work for $30/an hour?
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Old 4th June 2011, 08:46 PM   #897
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critofur,
sorry I used the word "pointless", that's to strong a word for what I was trying to say. If you can come up with a less expensive waveguide I may be interested in a couple pair.

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Old 5th June 2011, 01:03 AM   #898
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Less expensive Waveguides

Actually I have been working at trying to come up with something in wood.
we have tried solid oak, maple, walnut, lacewood and plywood(24mm baltic birch phenolic ) end grain showing.

The best for coming out flawless is solid maple but not crazy about how it finishes but could be nice with the right technique.

The idea is that I would deliver the wood blanks routered to a perfect circle of the correct final diameter and machinist will complete the rest. My goal would be to try and get the price to no more than 100/pair unfinished or a least a sealer coat.

We are also looking into ABS.

I'm also looking at another CNC'd device(have one now) to assist in Elsinore build but will talk to Joe first before I mention it..

Note on existing Aluminum Waveguide: Planning to listen to the difference between having tweeter mounted to back of Waveguide compared to subfront mounting.. Drill and tap four holes, space and mount tweeter accordingly. Subfront tweeter area is pretty beefed up so dont know if the Waveguide Stiffness would help..

Couldn't expend this much Energy, Travel and Money unless the Speaker is Worthy!

Thanks
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Old 5th June 2011, 01:24 AM   #899
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how much for the aluminum ones raw / not powdercoated ?
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Old 5th June 2011, 02:10 AM   #900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critofur View Post
I wonder how optimized is the current waveguide design? I haven't see raw measurements in the waveguide, are they on Joe's site? Anybody care to post them?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"economies of scale" - yes well on a large scale they'd be $10 a pair - not solid aluminum of course, but they could still be nice quality anodized aluminum 1/4" thick, right? (stamped then polished and anodized or coated?) I know it'd cost a LOT to make the stamping forms and to own such heavy machinery... I wonder if I could forge with a hydraulic press in my garage?

Well I should have access to a CNC for the first time next week. Anybody have the files already prepared? I guess I'd use MDF then basically soak it in polyurethane so it would resist damaging dents/chips.

Aluminum is less than $2 per lb though, and I remember a high school that had a casting setup, they let kids make stuff for free it was so cheap. What about starting with a rough mold then machining the rough casted blanks to reduce cost?


Aren't there a lot of machinists out of work that'd be happy to have work for $30/an hour?



It's not the machinist that's the problem, it's paying for the machine.

Still could be done cheaper though, even at $100/hr...
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