If anyone in the UK is interested in CNC cut baffles I am in the process of having some made out of birch plywood. You will obviously need to have purchased the build plans from john first. Please see thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/251522-nao-note-ii-rs-cnc-cut-baffles-uk.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/251522-nao-note-ii-rs-cnc-cut-baffles-uk.html
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Just a shout out that Solen is now supplying driver sets for the NaO Note II RS and the NaO II RS. Solen Electronique Inc.
My thanks to DIY member and Note II RS builder, Zoula.
I would also add that DIY members Zoula and SAC are using the Nadja DSP crossover for their Note II RS builds.
My thanks to DIY member and Note II RS builder, Zoula.
I would also add that DIY members Zoula and SAC are using the Nadja DSP crossover for their Note II RS builds.
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The Note II only has the inverse mounted woofers. There isn't room to mount then both the same. I have no basis for comparison.
Ok, but you have NaO II RS with same woofers. I know it is U-frame, but if Note II RS has cleaner and tighter bass...
Not really. More an issue of room pressurization. The U can the dipole can not.
Here's a test 5th element did, it's two XLS subs in push-push and push-pull configuration. As you can see the 2nd harmonic is a LOT lower in push-pull configuration.
Very much enjoying my Nao Note II build, though still have to complete the low end of my build since I am using a modified baffle with alpha 15a drivers rather than start all over.
So what is the acoustic crossover of the Nao Note II? Or what I am really asking is would it be a mistake to sum the bass before sending to my DIY subs? I understand 80Hz is typical when crossing to subs so perhaps the top panel of the Nao Note II gets close?
The idea is to use my spare alpha 15a drivers as a dipole coffee table subwoofer. One of each drivers will run from the left or right channel amps in parallel or series. If I connect one of the pair out of phase I'll have a dipole sub.
Thanks
So what is the acoustic crossover of the Nao Note II? Or what I am really asking is would it be a mistake to sum the bass before sending to my DIY subs? I understand 80Hz is typical when crossing to subs so perhaps the top panel of the Nao Note II gets close?
The idea is to use my spare alpha 15a drivers as a dipole coffee table subwoofer. One of each drivers will run from the left or right channel amps in parallel or series. If I connect one of the pair out of phase I'll have a dipole sub.
Thanks
Attachments
"The on axis response of the NaO Note panel was designed to follow a 4th order, Riley/Linkwitz, 110 Hz high pass response. The data below show that this target has been achieved" NaO Note Details
My guess is that you can´t go down to 80Hz without getting too high distortion and less optimal curve for crossover. You really should have measuring system, without it you are loosing the real benefit for dsp system - flexible tuning!
A table sub with two opposing drivers will not really be a dipole. I don't think that a mono sub positioned far from speakers is a good choice. You can try that easily with any kind of sub of course. The problem is 110Hz crossover - you will never get phase alignment good at 110Hz with that much distance difference. This will induce lots of lobing (spatial differences in summed response) and poor transients. Notes are supposed to have integrated stereo (sub)woofers!
My guess is that you can´t go down to 80Hz without getting too high distortion and less optimal curve for crossover. You really should have measuring system, without it you are loosing the real benefit for dsp system - flexible tuning!
A table sub with two opposing drivers will not really be a dipole. I don't think that a mono sub positioned far from speakers is a good choice. You can try that easily with any kind of sub of course. The problem is 110Hz crossover - you will never get phase alignment good at 110Hz with that much distance difference. This will induce lots of lobing (spatial differences in summed response) and poor transients. Notes are supposed to have integrated stereo (sub)woofers!
Hi Juhazi, thanks for that input. 110Hz is what I am looking at then.
The Najda DSP option has a fifth channel add on board coming so I may be able to compensate for phase difference should I purchase that and add a couple of amps.
Indeed, I expect to get a UMIK-1 microphone eventually, but it is low on the list at the moment.
By dipole sub I mean the kind built here, sealed with the two drivers back to back and out of phase, giving minimal cabinet resonance;
Audio Pages: Dipole subwoofers
The Najda DSP option has a fifth channel add on board coming so I may be able to compensate for phase difference should I purchase that and add a couple of amps.
Indeed, I expect to get a UMIK-1 microphone eventually, but it is low on the list at the moment.
By dipole sub I mean the kind built here, sealed with the two drivers back to back and out of phase, giving minimal cabinet resonance;
Audio Pages: Dipole subwoofers
Having two drivers in a box like that is just waste of money and effort. Same spl and better measured performance comes from a single driver in H-frame.
Something to read about dipole bass
Electro-acoustic models
Dipole on axis
Dipole-offset
Something to read about dipole bass
Electro-acoustic models
Dipole on axis
Dipole-offset
Actually that link mentions the compound woofer arrangement that I am also toying with
" I see no compounding effect other than summing two dipoles" - extra 3 dbs and for a 4inch deepening of the baffle. Quite nice. But I am discussing that idea elsewhere;
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/46111-legacy-whisper-bass.html#post515924
Thanks for the complement Gainphile! I have enjoyed following your website and builds closely over the years so it is much appreciated.
I guess my Note build is akin to the Emerald Physics CS series on the low end. Obviously I cut the Note baffle a little differently, more to my taste. I do not expect it affects the response significantly.
Choice layers of baltic birch, double layered, sanded and oiled. On the middle layer stapled a curtain fabric to conceal the woofers. Looking to rear brace the woofers soon. Rear is still messy with cables and the like.
I guess my Note build is akin to the Emerald Physics CS series on the low end. Obviously I cut the Note baffle a little differently, more to my taste. I do not expect it affects the response significantly.
Choice layers of baltic birch, double layered, sanded and oiled. On the middle layer stapled a curtain fabric to conceal the woofers. Looking to rear brace the woofers soon. Rear is still messy with cables and the like.
optional cabinet construction & driver questions
Hi everyone, first post at DIYaudio ever, after recently buying NaO Note II RS plans.
In the email package I received from John K, a PDF called "NaO Note II RS optional cabinet construction"...
A second related question is whether the Peerless XLS woofers will fit into the new cabinet & whether maximum bass output level is the only difference between the XLS and SLS woofers.
Finally -- my apologies if this has been discussed before in this long thread (which I did read in its entirety over the past few days) -- is the Seas W22EX001 a good drop-in substitute for the Scan Speak Discovery 22W8534 or does the config file need to modified? (I realize the cost of the Scanspeak is modest and only 2 are needed, but ask because the Seas drivers are in hand.)
Hi everyone, first post at DIYaudio ever, after recently buying NaO Note II RS plans.
In the email package I received from John K, a PDF called "NaO Note II RS optional cabinet construction"...
"eliminates the separate woofer enclosure and the protrusion of the woofer box at the rear of the speakers. The profile of the speaker is that of the side panels. There are no changes to the side panels or the main baffle and these cabinet parts should be constructed in accordance with the original plan set. The advantage of the optional construction is that the finished cabinet is a single piece with all joints glued together with the exception of the rear woofer access panel. The result is that the cabinet in sturdier and free from potential rattles."
All this is good news for WAF, for sure, and possibly for improved performance at high output levels. But examining the new bass enclosure design, which in side profile looks like a squashed W or M, I can't help wondering if there are any acoustic performance costs compared to the more symmetrical original cabinet design. As this is the first time I've seen any mention of this alternate cabinet design, I'm seeking clarification & comments from John K -- and/or any users who may have built this version already. A second related question is whether the Peerless XLS woofers will fit into the new cabinet & whether maximum bass output level is the only difference between the XLS and SLS woofers.
Finally -- my apologies if this has been discussed before in this long thread (which I did read in its entirety over the past few days) -- is the Seas W22EX001 a good drop-in substitute for the Scan Speak Discovery 22W8534 or does the config file need to modified? (I realize the cost of the Scanspeak is modest and only 2 are needed, but ask because the Seas drivers are in hand.)
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There are no significant acoustic differences between the original and new style woofer format. There is a slight difference in the acoustic resonance of the enclosures but this is well above the crossover frequency and is attenuated by the crossover.
The XLS or XXLS woofer fit in the new cabinet no problem. I designed the new cabinet to accommodate the XLS woofers. I am currently using the XLS woofer in my system. If you use either please contact me for the proper miniDSP configuration file as there are differences between the configuration for the SLS and XLS woofers. There is no doubt that when built with XSL or XXLS woofer the system is better than with the SLS woofers, but when the additional cost is considered the difference probably isn't worth it to most builders.
Lastly, the Seas W22 can not be used without a redesign of the crossover for the lower mid. You can build the system with the W22 and it will certainly work, but it isn't going to sound as designed. Even if the crossover is redesigned for the W22 there is no guarantee the system would sound as intended. It's a different driver and it has its own acoustic finger print.
The XLS or XXLS woofer fit in the new cabinet no problem. I designed the new cabinet to accommodate the XLS woofers. I am currently using the XLS woofer in my system. If you use either please contact me for the proper miniDSP configuration file as there are differences between the configuration for the SLS and XLS woofers. There is no doubt that when built with XSL or XXLS woofer the system is better than with the SLS woofers, but when the additional cost is considered the difference probably isn't worth it to most builders.
Lastly, the Seas W22 can not be used without a redesign of the crossover for the lower mid. You can build the system with the W22 and it will certainly work, but it isn't going to sound as designed. Even if the crossover is redesigned for the W22 there is no guarantee the system would sound as intended. It's a different driver and it has its own acoustic finger print.
Thanks very much for the quick clarification, John, much appreciated.
Still have to mull over the question of using the XLS woofers. I have almost finished building the cabinets for a pair of Orion 3.4 & have invested in all the parts. I could pull the XLS from the Orion and use them in your Note II RS... but then what to do with the Orion.
I'll probably end up buying the whole Note II RS driver kit from Solen. Then I could sell of one of the two speaker pairs complete later. I have no room/use for two multi-amp speakers & one will have to go. I suspect more & more the Note II will be staying. The digital xover makes it so much more appealing, and the various comparisons by those who've heard both are swaying. After all the work the Orion cabinets required! -- the multiple curved side panels aren't easy for a beginner with a router!
Still have to mull over the question of using the XLS woofers. I have almost finished building the cabinets for a pair of Orion 3.4 & have invested in all the parts. I could pull the XLS from the Orion and use them in your Note II RS... but then what to do with the Orion.
I'll probably end up buying the whole Note II RS driver kit from Solen. Then I could sell of one of the two speaker pairs complete later. I have no room/use for two multi-amp speakers & one will have to go. I suspect more & more the Note II will be staying. The digital xover makes it so much more appealing, and the various comparisons by those who've heard both are swaying. After all the work the Orion cabinets required! -- the multiple curved side panels aren't easy for a beginner with a router!