Hi,
You can't swap a complex x/o for a simple series x/o without
it all going horribly wrong if the original x/o is near correct.
Parallel x/o's and complex x/o's don't use any more current
than a series c/o. There is no reason to change the x/o,
and certainly no reason to go for something wrong.
rgds, sreten.
Hi,
You can't swap a complex x/o for a simple series x/o without
it all going horribly wrong if the original x/o is near correct.
Parallel x/o's and complex x/o's don't use any more current
than a series c/o. There is no reason to change the x/o,
and certainly no reason to go for something wrong.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited by a moderator:
We are going WAYY off-topic here, speakerman19422.
http://sound.westhost.com/parallel-series.htm
Rod Elliott has a very good article where he analyses the series and parallel circuits. They turn out to be conjugates of each other. When driven by a source impedance of around 6 ohms, they are kinda similar, but the series uses higher capacitor and lower inductor values. Driven by a voltage amplifier, they behave differently. You don't biwire a series crossover! I find them interesting too. But we ought to get back to KEF B200 really.
http://sound.westhost.com/parallel-series.htm
Rod Elliott has a very good article where he analyses the series and parallel circuits. They turn out to be conjugates of each other. When driven by a source impedance of around 6 ohms, they are kinda similar, but the series uses higher capacitor and lower inductor values. Driven by a voltage amplifier, they behave differently. You don't biwire a series crossover! I find them interesting too. But we ought to get back to KEF B200 really.
Hmmm.....
Patronising question time is it ? Like you have some sort of point ?
For both cases the current is reduced tending to zero at low
frequencies for the tweeter and at high frequencies for the woofer.
So what ? that's how the current / voltage works for a x/o .....
rgds, sreten.
The topiic was a question about using the Kef drivers in t-lines in 2002.
RdLewis posted about the sound diffence when running a single inductor was amazing.
Using a different crossover may give beeter performance. This has been accomplished with old drivers. Knowing how to properly design a simple 6db series circuit that becomes 12 db per octave at the second octave.
Constant voltage is critical . This is achieved by the use of the correct value of resistors in R1 and R 2 of the tweeter circuit.
Peaking the Q of the corner frequency by choosing the correct L1 and C1 achieve this.
There have been a few loudspeaker companies that have achieved this
Many old AES papers by Ashley, Small and Kaminsky cover the design theory.
What happened to the current is not a patronizing question. You still have not answered my question. You state that the current was reduced. Where did the low frequency current go that the capacitor has stored?
RdLewis posted about the sound diffence when running a single inductor was amazing.
Using a different crossover may give beeter performance. This has been accomplished with old drivers. Knowing how to properly design a simple 6db series circuit that becomes 12 db per octave at the second octave.
Constant voltage is critical . This is achieved by the use of the correct value of resistors in R1 and R 2 of the tweeter circuit.
Peaking the Q of the corner frequency by choosing the correct L1 and C1 achieve this.
There have been a few loudspeaker companies that have achieved this
Many old AES papers by Ashley, Small and Kaminsky cover the design theory.
What happened to the current is not a patronizing question. You still have not answered my question. You state that the current was reduced. Where did the low frequency current go that the capacitor has stored?
We are going WAYY off-topic here, speakerman19422.
Series vs. Parallel Crossover Networks
You don't biwire a series crossover! I find them interesting too. But we ought to get back to KEF B200 really.
I don't understand why you made that statement. Series crossovers are passive not active circuits.
MRdB i am trying to understand why system7 posted you don't biwires a series crossover,
I am fully aware of the difference of bi-amping and bi-wiring. I am trying to understand why the posting of bi-wirng a series crossover circuit which I never implied. I would like to know what systems7's definiton of bi-wiring a series crossover is. The use of series crossovers theory goes back to the 1970's. Only a few loudspeaker manufactures have implemented them.
I am fully aware of the difference of bi-amping and bi-wiring. I am trying to understand why the posting of bi-wirng a series crossover circuit which I never implied. I would like to know what systems7's definiton of bi-wiring a series crossover is. The use of series crossovers theory goes back to the 1970's. Only a few loudspeaker manufactures have implemented them.
It goes back further than that. I've dissassembled German consoles from the 50s with series XOs.
I would be quite surprised not to see coverage in Olson.
dave
I have been told that you can't swap a crossover. I never posted swapping a crossover. I posted redesign. I have been told there is no reason to change a crossover. I have stated the reason.
Most designers construct more than one design. They decide on the design that has the least amount of compromise.
There are many factors that determine this. Compare crossover efficiency. It comes down to the efficency of the crossover topology. Series compared to parallel. Input compared to output of the given voltage used in testing.
Maybe some of the forum users can give me their expeiences with series crossovers.
Most designers construct more than one design. They decide on the design that has the least amount of compromise.
There are many factors that determine this. Compare crossover efficiency. It comes down to the efficency of the crossover topology. Series compared to parallel. Input compared to output of the given voltage used in testing.
Maybe some of the forum users can give me their expeiences with series crossovers.
Hi,
If only you knew how much sense your not making you wouldn't
be cluttering up threads with incorrect off-topic musings about
subjects you don't seem to really understand to any depth.
rgds, sreten.
When asked a question I gave an answer. Most listeneres have never listened to a series crossover.
What speakers with series crossovers have you listened to Sreten? Have you ever designed and tested any?
I wouldn't argue with the work done by Ashley, Small, Kaminsky,Lipshitz and Vanderkooy when the theory and formulas back up their claims.
Leach and Bullock's work on driver separation relative to crossover frequency.
In Speaker Builder 2-91, page 76 a review of the Fried speaker with a series crossover was done and tested.
What speakers with series crossovers have you listened to Sreten? Have you ever designed and tested any?
I wouldn't argue with the work done by Ashley, Small, Kaminsky,Lipshitz and Vanderkooy when the theory and formulas back up their claims.
Leach and Bullock's work on driver separation relative to crossover frequency.
In Speaker Builder 2-91, page 76 a review of the Fried speaker with a series crossover was done and tested.
Hi,
No you don't. You make glib statements trying justify your position.
You clutter up threads with what is essentially your opinion made
out to be "facts" when they are anything but that, they are your
misunderstandings of the actual facts, and it is very boring.
Quoting the authors of stuff your misinterpreting, and saying it
agrees with you is just tedious, it doesn't say what your saying,
and I don't argue with any sound technical argument.
Your not likely to take any notice of what I'm saying it seems.
Your more interested in what you think than technical accuracy.
Stuff that isn't right is always irrelevant, off topic clutter.
And attempts to justify it even more clutter ....
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
Hi,
So what ? I'm aware of the quasi second order nature of 1st order series.
Thats not detail its a justification via a case irrelevant to this thread.
Most of the technical detail is missing regarding the electrical and
acoustical functions. The above won't happen electrically as it does
not happen on the high passed unit, and being series the voltage
across both drivers must sum to the input voltage.
It does happen acoustically, but that is not made clear. Its not made
clear that if it has to sum to the input electrically, the acoustic output
generally won't sum to the input, unless it is very carefully arranged.
Reading / quoting papers is one thing, understanding them another.
It depends on the bass drivers inductance at what point the arrangement
goes to second order, for the same reason a 1st order parallel doesn't
roll-off at 6dB/octave continually, it levels off to a fixed attenuation with
the two inductors when the driver inductance starts to exceed driver Re.
Its not more detail, its just trying to justify previous statements.
Its not generally true, for a bass/mid unit x/o series at 100Hz.
This is all just pointless clutter. Start your own thread on your
opinions rather than filling other threads with statements
related to trying to imply it works the way you say it does.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
Measuring and testing the final results are facts.
You still have not answered many of the questions I have asked you.
What series crossovers have you listened to?
You feel the need to put other people down by claiming worthless clutter.
I have designed many speakers for myself and friends using series circuits after deducing what Fried did in his designs. I have designed crossovers and tested all of them till they were as flat as possible.
Switching component values by trial and error and testing the results is quite educating. It is what many designers have done.
I have stated the theory. Perhaps you shoiuld read the first post again. Most of the previous posts have been off topic.
I like sharing info. I don't put people down. I can't connect the dots for someone.
All of the answers to design series croosovers are in the previous mentioned papers. If someone wants to tell me 2 and 2 =3 it is not worth arguing with them.
You still have not answered many of the questions I have asked you.
What series crossovers have you listened to?
You feel the need to put other people down by claiming worthless clutter.
I have designed many speakers for myself and friends using series circuits after deducing what Fried did in his designs. I have designed crossovers and tested all of them till they were as flat as possible.
Switching component values by trial and error and testing the results is quite educating. It is what many designers have done.
I have stated the theory. Perhaps you shoiuld read the first post again. Most of the previous posts have been off topic.
I like sharing info. I don't put people down. I can't connect the dots for someone.
All of the answers to design series croosovers are in the previous mentioned papers. If someone wants to tell me 2 and 2 =3 it is not worth arguing with them.
Hi,
I'm fed up with this. You don't know your onions, neither did Fried,
though he was very good at intimating his stuff was the greatest
thing since sliced bread, it isn't, it wasn't, it never was.
Technically your an evasive nightmare, you claim you know what
you are doing, but come out with statement after statement that
implies you don't really have any handle on what is really going on.
I'm not into putting people down, I just don't like technically
incorrect statements that imply things that are not true and
can mislead people. Design and knowledge has moved on.
Don't talk to me about being able to join dots, its insulting.
Your dogmatic.
I don't care for dogma and any excuses for it.
Particularly I don't care for attempts to try to
represent it as something else to what it is.
Series x/o's have very little to do with effective use of the B200.
Its a pointless aside to delve into 1st order series network given
the nature of the driver, with the BSC and notch filters needed.
It isn't helping anyone or sharing anything other than dogma,
which isn't the way to to help anyone understand anything.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.