Sreten & Speakerman go at series XOs - Page 57 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd June 2012, 02:14 PM   #561
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Well, he is closer to Greenwich, I suppose
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2012, 02:46 PM   #562
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Well, he is closer to Greenwich, I suppose
+1 Aye mate!
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2012, 03:03 PM   #563
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Ahh, you're Scottish speakerdoctor?

Steve, the paper you presented gave me the impression these act like kind of an automatic transmission of sorts? I can't help but think it would cover for any doubts a person would have over whether they have crossed properly. Still, I prefer my vehicles to have a manual transmission even though that puts me in the minority this century
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2012, 03:12 PM   #564
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Ahh, you're Scottish speakerdoctor?
Nope, but I did work with a Scottsman for many years. I mentor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2012, 03:17 PM   #565
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
Right on both counts, speakerman19422. This fine Morel SCW636 Carbon Fibre cone has exemplary extended frequency response and ultralow inductance at 0.29mH.
Morel Supreme SCW636

I did find I could include a useful 1400Hz bass trap with the 5" paper 0.6mH W130S in combination with the interesting Visaton TW70 paper cone tweeter without messing anything up. Results here are not far different from what I could do with a 2nd. order parallel filter, but time alignment worked far better with the series network. I'd reckon this would be a good sounding setup, and the Fs filter transforms the TW70 from a BADLY BEHAVED HORROR into something that works well with series.
I tried both series and the SFE 'capless' xo with my 'Intimates' 2-ways and found both yielded a low efficiency speaker. Your modeled response suggests this as well with avg. level around 85 dB. One watt or 2.83V input in your model?

I ended up with the SFE xo in my intimates and a 2.83 V output of 84 dB @ 1M.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2012, 07:19 PM   #566
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
system7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
I really enjoyed reading about your INTIMATES LOUDSPEAKER, speakerdoctor. Very nice. But you missed a trick really. That huge 3mH bafflestep coil necessary on a freestander killed off the efficiency and slowed down the bass. These Eltim-style series filters don't have bafflestep, so you get 6dB of wall gain from a wallmounted bookshelf design, which is what they really are. Worth mentioning that they are really second order filters too.

The W130S is not very loud because it is SMALL, but it's not the crossover at fault here. It all works nicely because you can then use resistors in the tweeter crossover which are a good thing in themselves for that valve smoothness. Series and Parallel filters actually compliment each other. If you think about it, the drivers interact on a series filter when driven by a voltage amplifier, but then so would parallel drivers if driven by current source.

Not only do the filters and crossover points design themselves with series filters (Le, Re, Cz...), but so do the cabinets and positioning. Truly amazing.

I still haven't got a series working right with a fullrange driver used as a tweeter, which I know Planet_10 likes in the small FostexFF85WK version. It might lose the Fs filter too, which would be good. The time aligned parallel version with a Visaton FRS 5x8 2" fullrange has phase alignment to die for. FWIW, the unusual 1.5mH coil on the tweeter controls the 190Hz Fs resonance more than anything, as shown in the second frequency response where it is omitted.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Visaton FRS 5X8_Fullrange_Tweeter.JPG (22.9 KB, 227 views)
File Type: jpg visaton_FRS5x8_Circuit.JPG (25.4 KB, 225 views)
File Type: jpg visaton_FRS5x8_Phase.JPG (53.8 KB, 227 views)
File Type: jpg visaton_FRS5x8_FreqResp.JPG (61.4 KB, 221 views)
File Type: jpg visaton_FRS5x8_FreqResp_NoHPCoil.JPG (61.7 KB, 218 views)
__________________
Good Night, and Good Luck. Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2012, 01:45 AM   #567
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
The Intimates are now very happy being powered by two bridged Audiosource 150 amps.
Low efficiency, but great sound with the correct power behind them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2012, 10:52 AM   #568
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
system7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
To digress for a moment with your interesting Intimates Loudspeaker. I simmed it using similar drivers. Very good phase alignment from 2-7kHz. Frequency response way better than I expected, albeit letting a bit of midbass cone breakup through. Terrible efficiency, of course, and it simply doesn't work as a bookshelf on this type of simple filter, so you have to live with that.

What amazed me, was that the capacitor equivalent was ABSOLUTELY identical, apart from radically different impedance which would behave differently with a valve amp. Well, that IS interesting!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Intimates_Sim_Circuit.JPG (19.7 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg Intimates_Sim_FreqResp.JPG (84.6 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg Intimates_Sim_Phase.JPG (75.5 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg Intimates_Sim_CapacitorEquivalent_Circuit.JPG (19.7 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg Intimates_Sim_CapacitorEquivalent_FreqResp.JPG (82.5 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg Intimates_Sim_CapacitorEquivalent_Phase.JPG (74.8 KB, 40 views)
__________________
Good Night, and Good Luck. Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2012, 05:45 PM   #569
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
To digress for a moment with your interesting Intimates Loudspeaker. I simmed it using similar drivers. Very good phase alignment from 2-7kHz. Frequency response way better than I expected, albeit letting a bit of midbass cone breakup through.
You have me confused. Your XO disgram is a parallel network (the speaker referenced series), and do you mean mid-treble (5-10k) instead of mid-bass (40-80 hz)?

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2012, 07:42 PM   #570
diyAudio Member
 
mondogenerator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: City Of Villans
Blog Entries: 1
The Morel System7 posts looks more reasonable than I thought lol.

Mind you, Audax AP130ZO (admittedly not the high end HM line) is rather good with an Le of 0.4mH, and the Fostex FW137 is the best Ive yet to find, at 0.06 mH if the specsheet I have is correct.

http://www.stereo-lab.de/EN/media/do...datenblatt.pdf

If the specs are to be believed, the Fostex looks A1 perfect for a low order, perhaps even first order filter, crossed to a nice extended range tweeter.....At modest volumes only though....

Blast! wrong thread.
__________________
Every new piece of knowledge pushes something else out of my brain - Homer.....................Simpson

Last edited by mondogenerator; 4th June 2012 at 07:46 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where's Sreten? Pano Everything Else 13 26th March 2010 04:30 PM
Active XOs, and Amp built into speaker, or seperate akunec Chip Amps 5 11th May 2005 01:34 AM
Tweeter from B&W series 800 series 3 pirat Multi-Way 3 1st May 2005 07:39 PM
Question for sreten Mikey p Multi-Way 7 9th May 2004 12:18 AM
paging sreten.... Nanook Multi-Way 0 13th March 2004 07:02 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:28 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2