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Old 15th November 2012, 01:08 PM   #111
Face is offline Face  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgrau View Post
anyone can report on a good match with a low mid compression driver bellow beyma?

i'm particularly curious about B&C DCM50, it seems it can be had for 230e at the moment at some sales

BMS4592 mid is too costly for me (if still around 600e a piece)

i have vitavox S3, however it won't go as low as above....

the idea is to find a good option to reach 300-400 in lows and around 2k in highs so beyma can be relaxed from being stressed on its lower limits, hope this will improve its HF performance. though i have fostex 825, i'd love to avoid it if possible

also it would easier for a bass solution not to go any higher than 300-400
You realize this will be a very large horn, right?
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Old 15th November 2012, 01:12 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Face View Post
You realize this will be a very large horn, right?
define big

some variation on conical or OS will be around 50cm at mouth to load 400hz, approx.
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Old 15th November 2012, 01:19 PM   #113
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As a rule of thumb:
If you want to reach 400Hz you'll want a horn that loads down to 200Hz.
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Old 15th November 2012, 01:54 PM   #114
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AutoTech Tractrix-200 - AutoTech Horns - Horns DIY Sound Group
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Old 15th November 2012, 03:09 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgrau View Post
just bough a pair here. it will be in a few weeks time with me.

do you cross it at 1.2k?

there were several reports that low crossing affects the HF behaviour (over 10k) but who knows before a trial

hi Gordan

i have read Tuyens report at hifiwigwam. I dont share his views. The TPL 150 has very nice, and enough treble. Even, crossed low. To avoid crossover between the midrange and tweeter, and avoid to use two separate speakers, is just one of the advantages. I would just wait yours to arrive, and then try and listen to it , and find out , what fits best to you.

p.s. just wondering. where did you buy yours, and how much did you pay ?
in case you dont want to say it publicly, please email me.

Last edited by angeloitacare; 15th November 2012 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:40 AM   #116
Loren42 is offline Loren42  United States
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Old 27th November 2012, 03:33 PM   #117
JoshK is offline JoshK  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgrau View Post
angelo, i don't think audax on a baffle can reach beyma's sensitivity, for sure no. the subject of pr170m0 factory measurements was already discussed around. they need a horn to match the beymas.

i'm wondering where are you now with the system. frankly i'm finding very strange you are running different drivers over the same frequency and not getting why are you doing that.

maybe i'm wrong but considering the speed and microdynamics of an AMT tweeter, i would still try to avoid matching it with a cone driver.

actually i think the way to go is to have a low mid CD in a good horn, like BMS 4592 for more crystal clear or DCM50 for more rounded sound. They can both go to 300 (BMS) or 400 (B&C), which makes a bass solution easy. On the other side both are linear all the way to 3k at least, which gives a bit of freedom to experiment where to cross in order to relax Beymas so they can perform HF better than they do when crossed at 1.2k.

Actually, DCM50 + TPL150h, that would be a nice combo to hear.

Cheers
A bit of a late comer to this party, but I am playing in the same sand box.

I have a pair of TPL150Hs coming to play with, among a host of other horns/CD. I have a pair of Autotech Iwata 300hz and Radian 950pb or Community M200As to use ~450hz or so up.

The DCM50 look interesting, but what horn could you use to get lower than 400hz already seeming the limit, or near at least? The M200a's are technically able to hit that on paper.

Right now, I am looking at more the solution up to 400hz, namely Inlowsound's 80hz MB horn (I can just live with this depth). He has been kind enough to help me out with exploring other driver options, like the AE TD18H+. That looks to be squeezing 80-400hz out, which might be pushing it to the Iwatas, can't tell on paper.
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Old 27th November 2012, 05:05 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshK View Post
A bit of a late comer to this party, but I am playing in the same sand box.

I have a pair of TPL150Hs coming to play with, among a host of other horns/CD. I have a pair of Autotech Iwata 300hz and Radian 950pb or Community M200As to use ~450hz or so up.

The DCM50 look interesting, but what horn could you use to get lower than 400hz already seeming the limit, or near at least? The M200a's are technically able to hit that on paper.

Right now, I am looking at more the solution up to 400hz, namely Inlowsound's 80hz MB horn (I can just live with this depth). He has been kind enough to help me out with exploring other driver options, like the AE TD18H+. That looks to be squeezing 80-400hz out, which might be pushing it to the Iwatas, can't tell on paper.
If someone is building a new speaker system , using the TPL150 from scratch, what is the reason to use in the lower midrange a horn loaded driver ?
Not only will integration be more difficult, but you load the driver and will have at least 105db wm, and will need to attenuate it, to match the efficiency of the Beyma. Makes no sense to me.
If i knew the Beyma earlier, i would not have gone the horn route at all.

Listened Avantgarde Trio here in Hong Kong, at the official distributors place.
My perception was completely different than when i heard it before. This time, the flaws where right away perceivable. Bad integration of the 3 main channels, no much treble extension, and quite colored.

Heard Wilson Audio Alexandria as well . That is becoming a reference to me. Just amazing. Very dynamic, wonderful integration, and natural midrange.

Audio here in Hong Kong , and China, is alive as i have not seen anywhere else. There are blocks with 20 shops, all at one place, only selling highend audio stuff of any sort. At one place, you see several shops, only selling audio cables.

I am thinking in making next year eventually a commercial speaker. Using the Beyma with a dipole wave guide, mtm design with 8 inch PHL audio for the lower midrange and bass, and upscalable system, where someone can add a sub woofer cabinet for more bass.

Last edited by angeloitacare; 27th November 2012 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 28th November 2012, 12:01 AM   #119
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angelo, there's a clear reason why to use a horn bellow TPL-150, because it's a matter of taste for some of us. it's a dynamic impact of a low mid horn - just as well as a mid-bass horn that there's no substitute elsewhere. of course some people have different taste and can find a clean but undynamic sound of OB mid 100% acceptable and that's perfectly okay with me, i'm certainly not going to go around tell anyone what to like and what to dislike.
the only speakers i've heard so far that have some quality to get that sort of dynamics on lower part of that range without horn loading is 15" and 16" altec bass and mid bass drivers but than again, it's a matter of taste (i would need more listening to be completely sure they don't have a particular "tone" - or coloration - that somehow leaves a similar sonic stamp on different recordings). plus it's only 414 who can be used to hold on the a lower knee of TPL150.
so each to its own.
i will get my beymas only in late january so i need to be patient, more will be known in a short time afterwards.
at the moment, on a conceptual level, i'm more inclined to experiment with vintage low mid drivers with a particular rich tone and less forensic presentation compared to the more modern ones. i did live with BMS4592 and frankly that's a terrific driver - OK, a mid part of it - if you know how to use it and a significant part of the success is to find a way how to give it a tone and a flavour, which was in my case a product of using extremely musical passive elements for xovers by duelund and to feed with with a very good 10Y SE amp.
i'm a bit scared that beymas will not be able to avoid a ribbon stamp - forensic reproduction devoid of serious dynamic impact of real music - which i dearly hate, if my experience with any ribbon aiming to play under 7-8k so far is relevant. i'm only sensing it needs a driver with very rich tone so some i want to try are vitavox S3 from 450 on, audax PR170M0 from 250 on and fane 8M from 150 on. i will report here on findings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshK View Post
The DCM50 look interesting, but what horn could you use to get lower than 400hz already seeming the limit, or near at least? The M200a's are technically able to hit that on paper.
bill woods crosses it at 450hz in his AH300 horn. some italians (can't remember the names - they were building khorn replikas with advanced drivers) at 400 in what looks like a 250 square horn. i have with me a 220 tractrix (bd orphean) that looks perfect on paper for this use and even more, to experiment how low DCM50 can be crossed. the BMS 4592 i use it with is crossed only at 270hz, steep - i would personally never have balls to do it, but apparently the drivers are not harmed in home use. i guess the DCM50 can be tested with 350hz crossover in that horn...

Last edited by anubisgrau; 28th November 2012 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 28th November 2012, 12:19 AM   #120
JoshK is offline JoshK  Canada
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For me, part of the whole journey is going to be an experiment in what works best given the choices I have on hand. I am not married to anything just because I have it to try.

I have some ~300ish-hz Tractrix bowls too. Then I have some 140hz LeCleach mahogany horns. Those are big and probably harder to integrate. Never-the-less, a journey will be made.
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