If you're looking at 12'' drivers maybe this could pair well with the TPL-150 ?
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/414-8B Spec Sheet.pdf
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/414-8B Spec Sheet.pdf
What are the difference between the new old Great Plain, Celestion (have also Alnico or strong magnets) and more new professional lines as Beyma, Faital ?
just the efficienty : better for the second to match with compression driver or the Beyma TPL air motion transformer ?
In my beginner mind, I will looking for a driver with 10 g for 150 to 1000 / 1500 hz... unhapilly such drivers have always a not enough rigid cone or a too high fs (like the PHL) to be used below 400 hz !
All those speakers with 40 to 50 g cone for mid (150 to 1000-1500 hz): it is not too heavy to match with the fastness of an AMT tweeter ?
just the efficienty : better for the second to match with compression driver or the Beyma TPL air motion transformer ?
In my beginner mind, I will looking for a driver with 10 g for 150 to 1000 / 1500 hz... unhapilly such drivers have always a not enough rigid cone or a too high fs (like the PHL) to be used below 400 hz !
All those speakers with 40 to 50 g cone for mid (150 to 1000-1500 hz): it is not too heavy to match with the fastness of an AMT tweeter ?
Indeed !!
That's been my finding as well. And there's a little more to it than just moving mass. Much of the time, the smaller value Mms drivers also have a limited Xmax. Also add to the mix [that] the average sized baffle (width) used to match the TPL will almost always have a baffle step response issue to deal with as well. One method I have used in the past, is to use 2 drivers perside, under the TPL, in a 1.5 way configuration, and to make the baffle triangle shaped with the straight side (symmetrical) on the inside of the speakers.
p.s. the best sounding experience I have had, is using a Tang Band 1772, horn loaded, underneath my Stage Ribbons (similar enough to the TPL for the discussion here). Although it does make for an odd set up and requires some distance away from the array, and also for the hi-frequency unit to be physically time aligned.
That's been my finding as well. And there's a little more to it than just moving mass. Much of the time, the smaller value Mms drivers also have a limited Xmax. Also add to the mix [that] the average sized baffle (width) used to match the TPL will almost always have a baffle step response issue to deal with as well. One method I have used in the past, is to use 2 drivers perside, under the TPL, in a 1.5 way configuration, and to make the baffle triangle shaped with the straight side (symmetrical) on the inside of the speakers.
p.s. the best sounding experience I have had, is using a Tang Band 1772, horn loaded, underneath my Stage Ribbons (similar enough to the TPL for the discussion here). Although it does make for an odd set up and requires some distance away from the array, and also for the hi-frequency unit to be physically time aligned.
Too big ? Directivity above 600 hz ! Match between eavy cone and light AMT ! we should need something to go to the 1600 hz of the horned TPL150...
If a 15" : maybe this 2 cone one : the wide band 15" of EMS speaker in its magnet version ! great Qts also for matching thr transcient but still too heavy...we really need a third way with a 10" light cone à la PHL or else...
If a 15" : maybe this 2 cone one : the wide band 15" of EMS speaker in its magnet version ! great Qts also for matching thr transcient but still too heavy...we really need a third way with a 10" light cone à la PHL or else...
Best midrange match that I ever had with a Great Heil AMT was the JBL 2123H.
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2123.pdf
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2123.pdf
Seems like a popular combo. I'm looking into this myself, hoping it will be my next and maybe final speaker build.
Crossed over at 2K with at simple 6dB octave. The JBL was direct radiating in a sealed box of 1/4 ft3. Naturally rolled off at 200hz. With a sensitivity of 101dB 1m/1watt it was a great match with the AMT. Did not have to pad the Heil down to match sensitivity with the JBL.
I used an Altec 416 in a vented box low passed as woofer, but that was not as successful.
Hello Rullknufs! As you can see for yourself here: TPL-150/H you can purchase the Beyma TPL-150/H with a horn that's specifically designed for usage with the TPL-150 tweeter. The TPL-150 is the same driver sans any horn!
I'm listening to: After Dark by Halie Loren
Thetubeguy1954
What are the direct and audible improvements of adding the horn? It adds a bit to the total cost after all. I know a horn boosts lower frequencies which I guess in turn makes the tweeter easier to integrate with the woofer BUT what will I hear and perceive?
Funny how you're listening to Halie Loren. I'm doing exactly the same, perfect night music. I really like the Full Circle album.
firstly the horn help to a lower xo
I defintly think an another midrange is laking between the 12" and such high speed planar...don't we need for a better matching a littlier light cone with very low Qts and light material for fast transcient to marry the two opposite drivers ? I read so many times than too low xo with such Heil or planar makes a thiner sound...and not a progressive phase missmatch !
Supravox 13 cm... something similar ? and before any good 12" ; the planar xo will be higher : 2000 to 2500 ?
I defintly think an another midrange is laking between the 12" and such high speed planar...don't we need for a better matching a littlier light cone with very low Qts and light material for fast transcient to marry the two opposite drivers ? I read so many times than too low xo with such Heil or planar makes a thiner sound...and not a progressive phase missmatch !
Supravox 13 cm... something similar ? and before any good 12" ; the planar xo will be higher : 2000 to 2500 ?
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The thing with the 12p80nd is that it's not really a good for bass. If you want to put another driver in between the 12p80nd and the TPL150 it feels like it would just be easier to pick a 15" for the bass that actually can play low, put a 6-8" mid and then the TPL150. But would a 6 or 8" mid play as dynamic as the 12p80nd? Will the snare drums sound as lifelike and dynamic? Will Leonard Cohen's voice have the right feeling? At the moment I have a two-way with two Morel CAW638 and a CAT408 in d'appolito configuration and even though they are drivers that can handle a lot of power and so on it feels like they are "too small" and start sounding bad when trying to play an intense drum track on them.
Exactly
exactly.... to extend this line of thought further, we then have a problem with a driver to cover ALL the mid-range. Almost impossible, so:
A 4-way to the rescue !!
exactly.... to extend this line of thought further, we then have a problem with a driver to cover ALL the mid-range. Almost impossible, so:
A 4-way to the rescue !!
I was thinking above in fact (also 4 ways):
- 15" sealed bas for the two to three first octave
- 12" mid bass : Beyma, Faital, the "bidule" you want to move air and have also dynamycs.
-5 to 3" high mid for the lightness of the cone and also directivity without too thin sound (planar if too low) and try to match the speed of the planar which is dificult with any 12" nore 15" (some 8" can but few to 2k to 2.5k)
- then here the TPL150 or the planar because OT !
The more I try with dificulty to undrstand all those threads the more i think 4 ways even if more difficult in theory. More because the lower frequencies than the highs !
- 15" sealed bas for the two to three first octave
- 12" mid bass : Beyma, Faital, the "bidule" you want to move air and have also dynamycs.
-5 to 3" high mid for the lightness of the cone and also directivity without too thin sound (planar if too low) and try to match the speed of the planar which is dificult with any 12" nore 15" (some 8" can but few to 2k to 2.5k)
- then here the TPL150 or the planar because OT !
The more I try with dificulty to undrstand all those threads the more i think 4 ways even if more difficult in theory. More because the lower frequencies than the highs !
I have yet to hear a speaker with such a small driver in the midrange that I really liked.
My personal preference is a bigger mid-range driver. The speakers I've heard and liked the most are the big JBLs (D66000 Everest, K2 and so on) and the MBL 101 Extreme. What all of these have in common are big radiating surfaces for the midrange.
My personal preference is a bigger mid-range driver. The speakers I've heard and liked the most are the big JBLs (D66000 Everest, K2 and so on) and the MBL 101 Extreme. What all of these have in common are big radiating surfaces for the midrange.
I can't talk to you anymore if you let finer feelings get a grip on us Hello and thanks to everyone involved in this topic for his contribution on very interesting and educative theme.
I thought about audax HM 100Z0 as an option due its small lightweight and rigid cone, great efficiency, very low coloration...
I have excellent experience with this little audax as a mid driver betwen 500 and 5000 Hz in some other configuration and as I wrote...just an option on Eldam's sugestion.
Kind regards, Jernej
I thought about audax HM 100Z0 as an option due its small lightweight and rigid cone, great efficiency, very low coloration...
I have excellent experience with this little audax as a mid driver betwen 500 and 5000 Hz in some other configuration and as I wrote...just an option on Eldam's sugestion.
Kind regards, Jernej