'New' 3 ways, p13wh

[prickears]

G'Day all,

Attempting to design a three way passive system based on vifa p22wp-01-04, vifa p13wh-00-08 and SEAS 27tff.

I'm not sure which way to jump WRT woofer arrangement, options i've been looking at are 1 p22wp, 2 p22s (1 facing forward the other back to counter baffle loss), or 2 woofers both facing forward. Either way in series for an 8ohm load and 89-90 db.

I'm thinking of crossing over to the p13 at 450hz to, a, counter baffle loss (10 inch wide baffle), and, b, to help the p13 out a little WRT power handling, (just in case i should happen to really crank 'em up!)

I want to fire the ports forward into the room as my house is a real 'bass loader', at the frequency the port will be 'alive'.

I'm kinda hoping someone might be able to point out if one of or all these methods are seriously flawed, or at least, more flawed than another!

Any advice muchly apprieciated, Thanx,

Mick.

Ps, Pretty excited to finally get to work with the highly regarded p13wh!!

Pps, Not sure how to post links for drivers specs! PC doughnut!!!!!! (sorry).

 

[planet10]

I'd mount 2 woofers, 1 each side push-push

dave

 

[prickears]

Thanks Dave,

Thats the method I thought would best suit the p13s 88db.

And seemed to me, the least flawed way, just wasn't sure if there was something i may have overlooked.

Mick.

 

[Moondog55]

So you have ditched the Jaycar domes??

Still working on ideas for mine but I like the idea of using the ME2 as a base and adding the woofer as a .5

 

[prickears]

G'Day there Moondog,

Mmmm, yeah, jaycar domes or p13s, it was a tough call but..........
I'll try to live with that decision!

But seriously, I scored the lucky last pair from speakerbits, and i'm a little chuffed about it too I gotta confess. I did consider those yellow jaycar drivers for a while, (can't find any helpful info on them), but the p13 is a known cracker, so i figure it to be a safer option.

Couldn't temp ya into some jaycar domes could I? Going cheap ya know!

Mick.

 

[Moondog55]

OK $ 20- and I'll pay the postage??
You HAVE fixed them I spose??

 

[prickears]

2 of them are going like 'new' ones! the third needs the same treatment as the other two.
I have no doubt it will do the same.

 

[rabbitz]

But seriously, I scored the lucky last pair from speakerbits, and i'm a little chuffed about it too I gotta confess. I did consider those yellow jaycar drivers for a while, (can't find any helpful info on them), but the p13 is a known cracker, so i figure it to be a safer option.

The P13 may not be dead if this is anything to go by. The P17 now lives on built by Scan Speak so the P13 may follow.

New Danish P17 at Madisound

 

[Moondog55]

If true good news for DIY'ers

Perhaps that means our favourite woofer may return??

Should we start an email storm of requests??

 

[planet10]

Perhaps that means our favourite woofer may return??

You mean this one?

Vifa P13WH00 5" Mineral filled polyCone from Madisound

dave

 

[Moondog55]

No Dave, like Rabbitz my favourite woofer is the M-22, if they bring it back I hope they come to their senses and make a series in 16 & 24 Ohm so those of us who use multiple woofers can run in parallel

 

[prickears]

Mine are actually marked 'Peerless' designed in denmark, Made in china, i'd say.
Tymphany still quote as 'Discontinued'. But I say 'Bring it back, fools!'

 

[rabbitz]

No Dave, like Rabbitz my favourite woofer is the M-22

It's a shame. The closest is the Vifa PL22WR but has lost SPL and it's deleted from the range but still available from resellers.

The Vifa NE225W has landed in Oz but at 2x the price of the old M22WR.

All this is making the SB Acoustics SB23NRX look attractive but I imagine would need more work in the crossover plus I've never heard one.

The SS Discovery 22W8534 could be a goer as seems to be the PL/M series basket with different cone material but I've only been advised of the smaller sizes being available in Oz.

 

[Andersonix]

Shouldn't you take the P13 lower than 450Hz, perhaps even around 150-200, out of the midrange?

 

[Moondog55]

I'd agree with that, resonance in a sealed box is somewhere around 110Hz, 1 to 11/2 octaves above that would be a good place.

255 -> 300Hz

The price for better performance may be lower power handling and the higher cost of the huge inductors needed, good argument for Bi-amping ( or rolling your own coils )

 

[prickears]

G'day Tosh,

Yes, but, I would rather not go down the active xo route, And as a passive system, crossing that low is getting a bit too expensive.

It may also be worth noting that ALOT of sound systems cross in the mid and still sound well sorted.

So I hear what your saying and I wonder aloud, is it worth the money for such huge inductors and the impact of their higher load?

Mick.

 

[planet10]

I'd agree with that, resonance in a sealed box is somewhere around 110Hz

I'd just set it sealed for a BW rolloff and add another 2nd order section for a 4th order roll-off at wherever the sealed F3 is, It is a capable midwoofer all by itself, use that to keep the XO far-far away from the midrange. Also makes it easier to integrate the woofers on the sides. Active would be the best choice that low.

dave

 

[Moondog55]

Mick do you have a local auto electrician who rewinds starter motors??
If so he/she should have some 1.8 or 2.5mm wire, buy some and wind your own, definitely worth the better sound from the lower XO

 

[prickears]

From a finance point of view lets just cross active off the list. At least for the time being.
I can always go back to it further down the track.

Dave, your idea is a good 1 i think, but I then still need to cross the p22s and without an active filter still expensive, or am i reading your post wrong?
Why woofers on the sides as opposed 1 front 1 rear firing?

Mick.

 

[prickears]

Sounds like good advice Moondog I shall check it out and keep you posted. How does one measure inductance? I already roll my own smokes but testing for these is much easier i think(he he).