The secret of building a good 2-way

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Good drivers. There's no way to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Don't try to stretch the response too far with too big a mid bass/woofer. Maybe 8" maximum and something like a Morel 1" dome tweet. I prefer higher order crossovers, but many don't. Don't build a monkey coffin. Slope the front. It should be sealed, not vented, though I have seen a passive radiator system work quite well.

Those are the things I've had success with. You could violate every one and still design a great system.
 
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Defo said:
What is yours? :)


The two way is certainly the most celebrated and analyzed and turned inside out small home listening space suitable loudspeaker. No secrets, its all on the web. From BBC and KEF in the 70s to Magico Mini today, there are so many variations on a main theme that its the king of mutations. Tune to what Harbeth has to say this side of the pond, check out the craftsmanship Italian school, marvel on the American expen$ive rigid cabinetry school. Diffraction control, some vibration control working cabinetry plan, and last but not least, excellent drivers are needed. They mainly make them in your country and in its neighborhood. Crossover is the art of precision and judgment, don't even think not to use the scientific and measurement approach. Certainly, due to only one crossover point and relative compactness, there is something very cohesive to be achieved in excellently judged smaller 2 ways. Full range only does better in integration but carries dynamic and extension compromises.
Still amazes me how much finely balanced all round performance can be had by the classic 8inch+1inch 70s-80s format. Had to utilize a couple of tired solid wood cabinets that a mate had and we just tuned in a couple of Seas new 8 inchers and a Peerless HDS. Measurements, new crossover, a couple of iterations...speaker he kept as main. The ''Tired2Way'' as I call it, has not even a decent purpose built cabinet with some diffraction plan or alignment backing it, but still does well.
 

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music soothes the savage beast
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another way of doing a 2-way is to use coaxial drivers
I have tried few, not the most expensive ones, just B&C coaxials, sammi sound coax, fake coaxials like lafayette, bozak, lots of other vintage 2-way with tweeter infront of midwoofer
there is something pleasing about tweeter in the middle of midrange driver, coherency or whatever, brain just has to work less to believe the sound
there is a reason so many studios rely on altec or tannoy monitors based on coaxial drivers
I thought I just bring this in....
 
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The coaxial is next best thing for geometrical coherency of wave launch after the full range.
The way P10 crosses low (same idea in my link too), ear is far more insensitive to recognize 2 distinct sources. So it maybe has the edge over the coax for geometrical-mechanical and crossing reasons smack in sensitive 2k-4k area that the 1inch tweeters need, either separate or coax. The crossing problems retreat while the wave launch considerations are best served in the most sensitive region. A good approach IMHO.
 
frugal-phile™
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Salas said:
Full range with a helper woofer in the same vein as P10's, but bigger with front mounted woofer, promising plan, but sadly not realized yet.

Excellent.

Part of the idea behind Tysen was to illustrate the concept. With all the new small "full-ranges" now available, and a wealth of decent midbasses, there are a huge number of applicable combinations. With the XO so low it becomes MUCH less objectionable and usually much simplier.

For instance, in the queue we have a "vintage" one (2 8" coral midwoofs + TB 3"), an MTM with FF85 + Silver Flute W14, Jordan JX150 + Alpair 5.

dave
 
Comment about 2-ways

One thing I hear when I listen to a 2-way design is doppler distortion. That is when a bass note modulates the higher frequency(s) in the woofer/mid. I find it most often when there is a female singer holding a note. Sounds like your speaker is being moved back and forth at the same rate as the bass note causing doppler shift to the female voice, which makes the voice sound just plain wrong. I have a 2-way with the XO at 1.8K. Doesn't seem to happen with a 3-way.
 
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Re: Comment about 2-ways

stoc005 said:
a 2-way design is doppler distortion...nyour speaker is being moved back and forth at the same rate as the bass note causing doppler shift to the female voice, which makes the voice sound just plain wrong. I have a 2-way with the XO at 1.8K. Doesn't seem to happen with a 3-way.

Doesn't happen in a FAST either (ie 2-ways like Tysen or the J6/alcone of Salas). XO is low enuff that the mid-tweeter is covering most of that range. And you don't have an XO in the most critical/sensitive range (1.5-4k or so). Remember... XOs are evil. If you have to use one, take steps to make them less evil.

dave
 
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Re: Comment about 2-ways

stoc005 said:

One thing I hear when I listen to a 2-way design is doppler distortion.

Doesn't seem to happen with a 3-way.


My 3ways have done that too, and the cause was from crossover, as its gone with later adjustments, or lets say different xo
I still hear it accationally when when trying new adjustments
Even very small variations can cause it
Its quite audible

Dave, I find it quite amusing that you continues to claim that crossovers are evil, or even use that term
But "fast" systems are 2ways as well, and maybe even worse as they mostly are restricted to the subamp filter chosen by factory

A lot of good sounding systems wouldnt exist without crossovers
And I would like to point out that just because a lot of multiway speakers doesnt work too good, it doesnt mean that it cant be done

But I admit that a 3way is awfully difficult, and 100% it will never be
2ways are by nature much better, with respect to crossover issues

I would say that most claims about this and that are merely theoretical and not proven

I haver never really believed in active crossover, but they seem to make so many people happy, that I have to try it(again), some day
 
frugal-phile™
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Re: Re: Comment about 2-ways

XOs are evil for sure, a FAST moves the XO quite low where it is less objectionable. A number of reasons, we are less sensitive, wavelengths are longer so drivers can be brought closer together, easier to choose drivers with a big overlap so that the XO can be simplier. And then active -- particularily PLLXO takes even more evil out.

tinitus said:
But "fast" systems are 2ways as well, and maybe even worse as they mostly are restricted to the subamp filter chosen by factory

Only if you compromise by using a plate amp (most of them would need modding to work properly with a FAST unless using a fairly big mid-tweeter -- bottlehead's is a good example). I use separate amps and roll my own XOs (so far i've gotten away with PLLXOs, but we are working on buffered PLLXOs).

dave
 
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