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Old 8th May 2008, 11:33 AM   #1
warnsey is offline warnsey  Australia
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Default B&C Compression Driver and Horns

Well i'm tossing up whether to get into horns or not and have been doing a little research. The concept of compression horn speaker interests me.

So far I have found the B&C DE950

Has anyone heard of these drivers?

I also like the look of the PHL 5240 15" Driver for bass.

As for tweeters I haven't thought to much about it yet. Perhaps the Visaton TL 16H.


Any ideas, opinions and suggestions would be more than appreciated.

Cheers
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Old 8th May 2008, 11:13 PM   #2
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Maybe you could say a little bit about why you're considering horns - if you have any specific goals, etc.

The response curve on that B&C driver looks very ragged.
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Old 9th May 2008, 03:04 AM   #3
gni is offline gni  United States
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Three impedance peaks. . .there are better experts out there
but it seems strange. . .probably the design. . .it should be
crossed higher that the low peak. The peaks almost look
like a wooker in a ported enclosure.
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Old 9th May 2008, 03:51 AM   #4
warnsey is offline warnsey  Australia
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Thanks for the replies guys.

I have quite a good Scan-speak based system and want to try something totally different. In terms of why i'm after horns is basically because I want a pair of Advantgardes but can't afford them. So i'm looking at DIY alternatives.

If the B&C drivers don't look the best can anyone recommend some alternative drivers?

Cheers
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Old 9th May 2008, 04:09 AM   #5
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I think the peaks are caused mostly by the horn used. Use a different horn and you'll probably get different peaks.
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Old 9th May 2008, 04:18 AM   #6
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If this is for a home system, unless you absolutely need the compression driver to play below 1 kHz or so, there's no reason to go with the 3-4" diaphram drivers... use a 1" exit 1.5-2" diaphram driver. The larger diaphram drivers like the one you linked have resonances low enough in frequency that they are a problem. For smaller drivers this is usually up at at least 15k or so... much less of a problem. The B&C DE250 would be a good choice for example. You can mate this to a 15 if you have a horn large enough to control the directivity down to 1 kHz or so.
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Old 9th May 2008, 03:49 PM   #7
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by gni
Three impedance peaks. . .there are better experts out there
but it seems strange. . .probably the design. . .it should be
crossed higher that the low peak. The peaks almost look
like a wooker in a ported enclosure.
A compression driver IS dual resonance system, just like a ported speaker, but its actually in a bandpass configuration. Thats why there are TWO peaks. The third one should not be there in a good waveguide design.


Quote:
Originally posted by warnsey
Thanks for the replies guys.

I have quite a good Scan-speak based system and want to try something totally different. In terms of why i'm after horns is basically because I want a pair of Advantgardes but can't afford them. So i'm looking at DIY alternatives.

If the B&C drivers don't look the best can anyone recommend some alternative drivers?

Cheers
I like B&C drivers a lot. They are as good as anybody elses, and better than nost. Why "try something totally different" there are lots of good existing designs that have had a lot of engineering put into them.

Quote:
Originally posted by augerpro
I think the peaks are caused mostly by the horn used. Use a different horn and you'll probably get different peaks.
You can get different peaks, but if the waveguide is design correctly then there should be very little change in the peaks. They are mostly caused by the driver. If there are a lot of peaks then something is seriuosly wrong with the design. There should be two, very clean peaks.

Quote:
Originally posted by Rybaudio
If this is for a home system, unless you absolutely need the compression driver to play below 1 kHz or so, there's no reason to go with the 3-4" diaphram drivers... use a 1" exit 1.5-2" diaphram driver. The larger diaphram drivers like the one you linked have resonances low enough in frequency that they are a problem. For smaller drivers this is usually up at at least 15k or so... much less of a problem. The B&C DE250 would be a good choice for example. You can mate this to a 15 if you have a horn large enough to control the directivity down to 1 kHz or so.

I would completely concur here that the larger format drivers are for power handling ONLY and they innevitably have poorer HF response. The 1" is ideal for a home system since it can reach from 1 kHz to beyond audible thus leaving out the very messy crossover in the critical range of 2-8 kHz.

Waveguides are the way to go, but only if done correctly. Do it wrong, which is more typical than right, and they can be horrible. This is how they got their bad name.
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Old 10th May 2008, 07:31 AM   #8
warnsey is offline warnsey  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee


A compression driver IS dual resonance system, just like a ported speaker, but its actually in a bandpass configuration. Thats why there are TWO peaks. The third one should not be there in a good waveguide design.




I like B&C drivers a lot. They are as good as anybody elses, and better than nost. Why "try something totally different" there are lots of good existing designs that have had a lot of engineering put into them.



You can get different peaks, but if the waveguide is design correctly then there should be very little change in the peaks. They are mostly caused by the driver. If there are a lot of peaks then something is seriuosly wrong with the design. There should be two, very clean peaks.




I would completely concur here that the larger format drivers are for power handling ONLY and they innevitably have poorer HF response. The 1" is ideal for a home system since it can reach from 1 kHz to beyond audible thus leaving out the very messy crossover in the critical range of 2-8 kHz.

Waveguides are the way to go, but only if done correctly. Do it wrong, which is more typical than right, and they can be horrible. This is how they got their bad name.

Thank you very much for the lengthy response. So perhaps the B&C DE500 would be a better bet. You mentioned that there are good existing designs out there (I assume you mean using compression drivers) is there any chance you could point me in the right direction?

Cheers
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Old 10th May 2008, 03:51 PM   #9
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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The DE500 is a pretty nice little driver. I used them in my car a while back. Nice small drivers.

I believe that Dr. Geddes also likes it's little brother the DE250 quite a bit too. I haven't used the 250, but have used the 200 a while back. The 200 may have a little better treble than the 500, but the midrange of the 500 was better IMO.
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Old 10th May 2008, 05:16 PM   #10
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by warnsey



Thank you very much for the lengthy response. So perhaps the B&C DE500 would be a better bet. You mentioned that there are good existing designs out there (I assume you mean using compression drivers) is there any chance you could point me in the right direction?

Cheers

I do like the DE250 a lot. I've used the DE500, and its size is a real asset. But its not worth the extra cost in my opinion.

"there are good existing designs out there (I assume you mean using compression drivers) " - I can't find where I said that, but I doubt that I meant the driver. There are plenty of good drivers out there. There are almost no good waveguides (mine work well), so I suspect thats what was meant.
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