naah ....
I think you missed my facetiousness ........ didn't address you
hahahaha, you win, i cannot compete.
so how about those brussel sprouts?
There's nothing wrong with wanting to build an F-5. Ask away, plenty of people helped me with my build. I was told to go read, I did and it helped. Of course the F-5 thread was big then, but much larger now, and being a tube guy, I read a bunch of F-5 threads and builds to figure out if I was up to it.
I used the Peter Daniels boards and found Peter answered many of my questions quickly, accurately and without any droll comments about having to do so. I did as much preliminary work as I could before I asked.
I understand from being on other forums for other topics, how it can be frustrating seeing question after question re-asked a million times. I also remember and understand how it felt trying to learn. (and still do, as I am only beginning even though I've been at it for a decade+. Still a beginner!)
I believe it is Mr Pass himself that keeps repeating the mantra "To get people to build amps" as the main reason these gifts are given. It shouldnt be that hard to figure that people are going to get excited about doing it.......right up until they ask a few questions and get slapped down. This is just part of the process, just get thicker skin and ask away...and read! I wouldnt be run off because you got a "go read answer" you should be reading if you want to DIY a Pass amp, otherwise, farm the build out.
Having been there as a "question asker" I can say part of the frustration was doing the reading, and having it generate a bunch of questions. You formulate a few questions that (if answered) will provide you with the understanding you seek, and you are told to "go read"......Well, I just learned to formulate my questions so that hopefully I could show I had read the suggested material, but have a question left unanswered.
Another way I have found to get answers was to answer someone else's question as best you can given your understanding. Then no small number gladly jumps out correcting your answer...Viola, your answer!
As an example, I am preparing another F-5 build, then I'm off to an Aleph project. For several months I have been searching up every post I can find on anything Aleph....Mini Aleph, various larger Alephs, AlephJ etc. I have bookmarked and read every one I can find, so at least when I start hitting problems, I will have enough knowledge to understand direct answers. Many of the questions answer themselves as I prepare, but sometimes that generates others.
I have a life, a wife, and a job that requires a lot of time. My business (Law)has nothing to do with electronics building at all (unfortunately). That said, it (DIY audio) has been a big part of my private time personal life, as a hobby and a passion. As such, I have been in the position to ask a lot of questions around here, and as long as you dont want a lot of spoon feeding, I find answers come. If you are interested in building a F-5, cool. If you have a basic understanding of power supplies, grounding, an the basics of how a power amp works in general, you can probably build one no trouble at all. I did, and it measures just as it should thanks to a lot of people here and other places.
So, to the knowledgeable I would say this: The Pass forum is a gift, and many would like to take part who are less knowledgeable. (Obviously). To the less knowledgeable, give a little break and do enough research to at least understand the answer you seek. While doing that, you will no doubt answer many of them yourself. No doubt that will generate others, but now you are in a better place to ask. "How do I set the bias on my F-5" would be a terrible way to introduce a question here on DIY. (not to mention getting shot by the original poster!) Asking a question that shows you know the written procedure of how to set bias, but that has caused another question to float to the top because amp isnt responding as it should is better. Now others can see that your question stems from the amp not acting the way it is supposed to during the bias setting for example, instead of wanting someone to do it all for you from the beginning.
The F-5 thread aint that big, most of it is fluff. Go through it speed style with a note pad, noting interesting on point build posts by post number and a short note about what it explains. As you read through, you will find related posts, note them, then go back to the original post and note "see also"
I ended up with only about 6 pages of notes for my first build. You wont take notes on the parts you do understand, which also make your final product smaller. Once I learned with the help of many here to lower the 500mV I had on the output, it ran perfectly. And I'm a newb, still. You can only learn so much about swimming by watching others swim. At some point, you must dive in and start splashing around to get any further!
Russellc
Ok, War and peace on Newbs and non newbs is over from me
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i think it served its purpose, ie no purpose, just to alert the creators of so many similar elementary f5 threads that perhaps there is enough. not to put words in his mouth, but i tend to agree. not that i dont think they deserve a voice, but when its to the detriment of the functionality of the rest of the pass forum it gets a bit much, especially when its asking about things that are so clearly and carefully and succinctly covered in the pass articles, which do a better job than anyone else here is going to do.
sometimes there is nothing else for it but to start a thread, but the art of the search tool is something that needs to be used more often, subjects such as the f5 are so well covered its not funny. and the point of these projects is to learn as you go, otherwise go buy a kit.
i certainly dont want to discourage people fro taking on these projects, but just think about whether they are for you. at least as russel said, do the research and possibly even fail first or start with something more suitable, so that when it comes to asking the questions its obvious you are trying to put in the yards rather than just get a great amp for cheap with no effort on other peoples dime
and before you begin, do not even start if you are only doing it to save money, diy audio is not cheap when you value your own time, you must have the love of learning and doing also
and i'm building my first pass type power amp as we speak (aleph jx) to, so i'm on your side
sometimes there is nothing else for it but to start a thread, but the art of the search tool is something that needs to be used more often, subjects such as the f5 are so well covered its not funny. and the point of these projects is to learn as you go, otherwise go buy a kit.
i certainly dont want to discourage people fro taking on these projects, but just think about whether they are for you. at least as russel said, do the research and possibly even fail first or start with something more suitable, so that when it comes to asking the questions its obvious you are trying to put in the yards rather than just get a great amp for cheap with no effort on other peoples dime
and before you begin, do not even start if you are only doing it to save money, diy audio is not cheap when you value your own time, you must have the love of learning and doing also
and i'm building my first pass type power amp as we speak (aleph jx) to, so i'm on your side
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I'm just back ...
oh boy - it's hard work to chop just killed Giraffatitan and put it in freezer
naah - I was just joking regarding F5 .....
and I'm not frustrated with greenhorns , coz' I'm dumbest here ........
I'm just refusing seriousness
when too many are interested in hi-end and having an amp , I just feel funny
if you think that this thread serve some purpose - put it back in Papaland for - say - a month , then move it to Lounge (again)
greenhorns are good - everything is moving in right direction only with fresh blood .....
naah - I was just joking regarding F5 .....
and I'm not frustrated with greenhorns , coz' I'm dumbest here ........
I'm just refusing seriousness
when too many are interested in hi-end and having an amp , I just feel funny
if you think that this thread serve some purpose - put it back in Papaland for - say - a month , then move it to Lounge (again)
greenhorns are good - everything is moving in right direction only with fresh blood .....
i belong to many forums on different subjects where my knowledge would be considered on the advanced level and i would never treat a newbie the way some of you do here .
just how are these newbies questions detrimental to the functionality of this forum ? there's plenty of room for your threads . you can't just ignore these posts ? ohhhhhh bummer a thread you were interested in is now on page 2 and you're going to have to scroll and click to find it .
personally i don't think Nelson intended to share his knowledge with a select few members of your club . he intended it for all and for you to Pass it on to others .
i've read pretty much everything here at least once and nowhere have i heard NP say "go search you lazy f***"
rock on Nelson , Zen Mod and those who view this forum as a community and not a private club .
i vote to put this thread back where it started .
cheers Woody
No, they're completely different.
Other thread is for general OT, this one is specifically not about F5.
Makes sense to me
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No, they're completely different.
Other thread is for general OT, this one is specifically not about F5.
Makes sense to me
Originally Posted by flg
While your here Cal, the clutter is really in the F5 threads? As sad as that sounds, it's not enough to have things discussed explained in a 1000 pages but all these NewBs just want to have an F5, and wine to no end if no one responds to their question in a few hours. When you suggest go start at the beginning and read, or even point to the article, your one of the upset natives? otherwise it's chit chat and what would be nice if I had the money etc. etc. It seems like some of these people need a cell phone. The atmosphere of the forum is really changing lately?
I know it's a dificult, touchy, tacktfull, job you have, but, you can do it Cal!
Dear FLG
Seems like you don't relay understand human beings or the warnings you get from the moderators.
If you don't like to help don’t no one is forcing you.
If there is quite a lot about the F5 is that is such a wonderful thing to get started with and for those that get there the rewards are ugh.
I do tend to post loads of crap I do not deny this it is much more fun than many other things....
I understand that it is frustrating for the like of you to have to read the same stuff al over again and again the fact that there are so many repetitions is that it is so difficult to find the right information.
One the search engine is not the best
2 at times we get loads of go and read this and that replies
3 and which I find most annoying is that when we get same replies from helpful experts that may be "wrong" or open to miss interpretation other so called experts are out in force with the Knife out ready to rip and slash.
Just to make an example a query was posted Arctic Silver.
Zen posted a comment and was immediately told that he was wrong, as arctic silver 5 is not conductive.
Now the Number 5 was never mentioned since then
Still I now understand why Zen Mod replies are the way they are.
Imo If I put up any posts either that I would like to learn sometink new or even if the content is totally bonkers I would like to give something back.
I am not hear to tell you if I have any alphabet behind my name or to make myself better by slagghing others.
Nor I am here to start up arguments with the like of you so relay I should apologise for this post but as I said we are humans (in the broad sense of the term not excluding visitors from further away)
But is the second post from you in the last 2 days (that I have seen) that has more or less the same tone.
This really makes all of my left-hand side diodes hurt.
Posting is becoming much less fan of what it should be and the likes of you are pushing the like of me more and more on the outside.
I tough that this was a place where to "learn the art of Audio" could you please get that bit changed to sometink more appropriate.
I have a few suggestions but not really worth my time and bit rude.
I have the choice to post or not.
If I chose to post and can give a tiny little bit back of what I have received from the like of Papa Nelson this is what give me pleasure.
I also have a button where I can choose to ignore peoples.
So far there is one and only one there.
No not you FLG it takes quite a lot to get there.
But you can certainly put me there same as all the newbs and green horns the offended you by asking stupid questions.
Hey what an empty life that would be and silence just like putting a mirror on your monitor and a Mike up your...
Just one question Is there Just one of you bheaving in this way and posting with different names or a private circle of the likes?
While your here Cal, the clutter is really in the F5 threads? As sad as that sounds, it's not enough to have things discussed explained in a 1000 pages but all these NewBs just want to have an F5, and wine to no end if no one responds to their question in a few hours. When you suggest go start at the beginning and read, or even point to the article, your one of the upset natives? otherwise it's chit chat and what would be nice if I had the money etc. etc. It seems like some of these people need a cell phone. The atmosphere of the forum is really changing lately?
I know it's a dificult, touchy, tacktfull, job you have, but, you can do it Cal!
Dear FLG
Seems like you don't relay understand human beings or the warnings you get from the moderators.
If you don't like to help don’t no one is forcing you.
If there is quite a lot about the F5 is that is such a wonderful thing to get started with and for those that get there the rewards are ugh.
I do tend to post loads of crap I do not deny this it is much more fun than many other things....
I understand that it is frustrating for the like of you to have to read the same stuff al over again and again the fact that there are so many repetitions is that it is so difficult to find the right information.
One the search engine is not the best
2 at times we get loads of go and read this and that replies
3 and which I find most annoying is that when we get same replies from helpful experts that may be "wrong" or open to miss interpretation other so called experts are out in force with the Knife out ready to rip and slash.
Just to make an example a query was posted Arctic Silver.
Zen posted a comment and was immediately told that he was wrong, as arctic silver 5 is not conductive.
Now the Number 5 was never mentioned since then
Still I now understand why Zen Mod replies are the way they are.
Imo If I put up any posts either that I would like to learn sometink new or even if the content is totally bonkers I would like to give something back.
I am not hear to tell you if I have any alphabet behind my name or to make myself better by slagghing others.
Nor I am here to start up arguments with the like of you so relay I should apologise for this post but as I said we are humans (in the broad sense of the term not excluding visitors from further away)
But is the second post from you in the last 2 days (that I have seen) that has more or less the same tone.
This really makes all of my left-hand side diodes hurt.
Posting is becoming much less fan of what it should be and the likes of you are pushing the like of me more and more on the outside.
I tough that this was a place where to "learn the art of Audio" could you please get that bit changed to sometink more appropriate.
I have a few suggestions but not really worth my time and bit rude.
I have the choice to post or not.
If I chose to post and can give a tiny little bit back of what I have received from the like of Papa Nelson this is what give me pleasure.
I also have a button where I can choose to ignore peoples.
So far there is one and only one there.
No not you FLG it takes quite a lot to get there.
But you can certainly put me there same as all the newbs and green horns the offended you by asking stupid questions.
Hey what an empty life that would be and silence just like putting a mirror on your monitor and a Mike up your...
Just one question Is there Just one of you bheaving in this way and posting with different names or a private circle of the likes?
Another Pass Thread
All,
I propose an interesting alternative...... I was dinged for starting several threads, at the same time it was suggested I start my own threads related to my F5 build. (Read, there are no specific "ground rules" for what's appropriate in this forum).
How about posting a "Pass Lab Forum Etiguette" Thread, and pinning it?
I mean, if "us newbies" are alienating the oldsters with innane questions, too many threads, not "preparing by reading", why not cut out all the drama and potshots, by pinning an article that sez how we should play in this forum?
Doing so would be a lot easier, I think, than posting an endless volley of diatribes about what's appropriate. I.e., it's easier to "be told" than to require us "to guess".
Some ideas:
Define what would qualifiy as a new thread. Strongly recommend we do something better than a thread with, say, 100,000 comments over a five year period. Sure, SEARCH helps.....but when the ONE nugget in a thread is interleaved with thirty irrelevant "off topic" cute comments, using SEARCH is tedious, and often non-productive.
Advise the newbie, up front in the pinned thread, where to find the Pass articles, and what they relate to. It's easy to play "stump the dummy" with a newbie, when there's no easy reference that says what exists. Advise the newbie to "do homework" before repeating queries defined in the readings.
Don't bury very relevant info, in a morass of thread fodder. Case in point, why NOT a thread entitled "Biasing the F5"? F5 newbies would love it, and it would be easy to find. Other Pass Experts can avoid that thread, and don't have to waste their time and expend their bile reading it--it would be their choice to do so.....but with the understanding if they read it, it would be with the intent to HELP, and not criticize. Clearly, this is easy: avoid the thread, if you don't want to help. Anyway, "rules of engagement" to express F5 Forum Etiquette would REALLY HELP here.
As a ardent designer, fabricator and driver of sports racing cars, I belong to a number of other (automotive-related) forums. They all have succinct, well defined, and relatively short-lived threads. And members don't use them as an opportunity to draw distinctions between "experts" and greenhorns. Same goes for my interest in DIY ham radio construction, and DIY telescope construction. Candidly--and my final comment--I have never seen such "sniping" at one another as I tend to see in this Forum. I totally enjoy Pass equipment designs and the DIY product. Unfortunately, I'm sensing the demeanour of some of this Forum detracts from the final outcome. Pity, when we see the experience of some, and the potential of others, on these threads.
All,
I propose an interesting alternative...... I was dinged for starting several threads, at the same time it was suggested I start my own threads related to my F5 build. (Read, there are no specific "ground rules" for what's appropriate in this forum).
How about posting a "Pass Lab Forum Etiguette" Thread, and pinning it?
I mean, if "us newbies" are alienating the oldsters with innane questions, too many threads, not "preparing by reading", why not cut out all the drama and potshots, by pinning an article that sez how we should play in this forum?
Doing so would be a lot easier, I think, than posting an endless volley of diatribes about what's appropriate. I.e., it's easier to "be told" than to require us "to guess".
Some ideas:
Define what would qualifiy as a new thread. Strongly recommend we do something better than a thread with, say, 100,000 comments over a five year period. Sure, SEARCH helps.....but when the ONE nugget in a thread is interleaved with thirty irrelevant "off topic" cute comments, using SEARCH is tedious, and often non-productive.
Advise the newbie, up front in the pinned thread, where to find the Pass articles, and what they relate to. It's easy to play "stump the dummy" with a newbie, when there's no easy reference that says what exists. Advise the newbie to "do homework" before repeating queries defined in the readings.
Don't bury very relevant info, in a morass of thread fodder. Case in point, why NOT a thread entitled "Biasing the F5"? F5 newbies would love it, and it would be easy to find. Other Pass Experts can avoid that thread, and don't have to waste their time and expend their bile reading it--it would be their choice to do so.....but with the understanding if they read it, it would be with the intent to HELP, and not criticize. Clearly, this is easy: avoid the thread, if you don't want to help. Anyway, "rules of engagement" to express F5 Forum Etiquette would REALLY HELP here.
As a ardent designer, fabricator and driver of sports racing cars, I belong to a number of other (automotive-related) forums. They all have succinct, well defined, and relatively short-lived threads. And members don't use them as an opportunity to draw distinctions between "experts" and greenhorns. Same goes for my interest in DIY ham radio construction, and DIY telescope construction. Candidly--and my final comment--I have never seen such "sniping" at one another as I tend to see in this Forum. I totally enjoy Pass equipment designs and the DIY product. Unfortunately, I'm sensing the demeanour of some of this Forum detracts from the final outcome. Pity, when we see the experience of some, and the potential of others, on these threads.
So we should post bias questions in the food thread now?
Like.... "Best temp to cook my F5? - please help!"
(and don't eat the Greenhorns)
Hi Cal
IMO briliant tread in the Pass Forum I don't mind where it is.
From the last few entries is clear the need for it and the direction that it is taking.
Not nice but at time a bitter pill make you fell beter after or WD40 if you like.
Is there a problem of space?
Why not arkive or zip stuff that has not beiing used for ages
You could certanly start to get rid of my old stuff.
Still only yesterday an old tread came back up and I did enjoy having alook
IMO briliant tread in the Pass Forum I don't mind where it is.
From the last few entries is clear the need for it and the direction that it is taking.
Not nice but at time a bitter pill make you fell beter after or WD40 if you like.
Is there a problem of space?
Why not arkive or zip stuff that has not beiing used for ages
You could certanly start to get rid of my old stuff.
Still only yesterday an old tread came back up and I did enjoy having alook
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