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Old 20th February 2007, 04:31 PM   #31
GM is offline GM  United States
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Greets!

21 kHz?! You're male? The only two adult folks I've known (young women) that heard this high couldn't listen to a good FM tuner without using EQ to roll-off the >16 kHz BW at >12 dB/octave.

Can't comment about music levels around the world, but probably excluding small clubs/grunge bands, concert levels are lower than when I frequented them back in the '80s when both manufacturers and a number of bands were competing for loudest. Deep Purple at the Fox theater in Alanta averaged ~125 dB after the ramp up and the finale crescendo topped 140 dB according to one of the local Altec dist. personnel involved. I spent ~the last half of it in the lobby. My personal peak was at Atlanta Rhythm Section's '75 Road Atlanta 'Dog Day's' Album debut concert that featured six hours of prelim bands, each a bit louder than the last.

By midnight, the SPLs had reached levels that required me to move a good 50-60 yds way off axis to keep from pegging my SLM, when ARS's Paul Goddard (bassist) comes out and starts playing short lead guitar riffs, then flipping over his guitar, which had something like 'louder?' painted on it. Of course the totally stoned/drunk crowd (the 'Dixie Dew' did a fine job of containing the 'Purple Haze' close to the ground ) close enough to see it hollered for more, so PG would make a big production out of going over and cranking the gain controls of two racks of amps up a notch until eventually they were all maxxed out and the concert commenced. By then, I had worked my way backwards until I was up at the top of the hill above them ~a 1/4 mi. away. Later I learned that the City of Flowery Branch several miles away filed a complaint and combined with the >2400 injured folks (some life threatening, which they weren't prepared for) passing through the 'Quack Shack' (basic medical facility) that was the first and last major concert there AFAIK.

For sheer ear damaging SPL though, these were quite mild compared to all the time I spent around steam locomotives, various high explosives, unmuffled two-stroke cycle and cart racers, Indy, Top Fuel, etc., racers, WWII thru Vietnam era military aircraft.......... Then there was the '69 moon launch that even at ~3 mi away with ear plugs and mirrored sunglasses it was a religious experience. All things considered, it's amazing I'm not already wearing 'stereo' hearing aids, though if it continues to degrade like it has the last few years it won't be long.

GM
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Old 20th February 2007, 08:50 PM   #32
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Ouch. I think I read about that concert somewhere -didn't know you were actually one of the survivors Greg. 1/4 of a mile away and those kind of SPLs -not good. Loudest thing I ever heard though was an Avro Vulcan on takeoff. I was standing at the end of the runway as it went up -those 4 Olympus engines sounded like armageddon. I didn't have an SPL meter with me (it was over 10 years back and I was still in my late teens) but it must have been serious -set off every alarm on the base and a few windows decided to give up the ghost.

I've been incredibly lucky with my hearing, being a bit bat-eared, so I reckon as part of nature's compensation process, I'll loose it that much more quickly. I try to enjoy it while it's still around. I can confirm that (last I checked) I am indeed male, and all parts are still fully connected. Probably explains why I hate bright speakers though as I can still hear the lift they seem to be obsessed with engineering into them at the moment. Oddly though, I've never had a problem with listening to FM. Don't know why. Probably because with the exception of BBC Radio 3 the transmission quality is now so bad anyway that my attention is drawn elsewhere. Still beats our vile DAB (high tech MP2 compression no less, transmitted at bit-rates about 1/2 of what they should be to avoid problems, and that's on the better stations) hands down though.
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Old 21st February 2007, 03:12 PM   #33
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Stupid thing about the BBC's DAB output is that the broadcast quality is actually better over the internet or via a digital TV receiver. Whoops, ranting off-topic.
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Old 22nd February 2007, 01:26 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scottmoose
Don't get me started on what's happened to orchestras of late. Far too many have gone for volume of sound to fill big halls. The racket they put out is apalling. I couldn't agree more about the brass -I almost always find it painful to listen to now.
Actually, just the opposite is happening in early music recordings.A lot of the current baroque bands don't amount to much more than two desks of violins, one desk of violas and 'cellos, and a single double bass. Also gone is the harpsichord, replaced with a theorbo and/or an archlute. This is probably a good representation of period court orchestras and is a totally different sound from the big band renditions of the late last century. The transparency and clarity coupled with a single driver speaker is captivating.

There are also a lot of good recordings of the Mozart/Haydn era played by orchestras of 40-50 pieces. Also you might look into the Beethoven symphony cycle by Christopher Hogwood.

I know that I am talking about recordings and the original post was about live performance, but still, I'll take a good recording over a bad performance any day. There are so many bad sounding halls, even famous ones. Finding the one good seat is a challenge, and once the performance is amplified, there is no hope.

Bob
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Old 22nd February 2007, 03:43 PM   #35
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Interesting about the baroque & some of the smaller orchestral pieces. Just goes to show how things can vary. I completely agree about a good recording being preferable to a poor performance -there aren't many early music recordings in my collection at present -at the risk of going off topic, any other recommendations Bob? I'll have to investigate some of the Chirstopher Hogwoods you mention.
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Old 22nd February 2007, 06:25 PM   #36
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Hi Bob

sorry to perpetuate the OT of this thread but are the recordings you refer to the AAM recordings?...If so, I to would be keen to hear of more recommendations.

Regards

Ed
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Old 23rd February 2007, 01:42 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by vitalstates
Hi Bob

sorry to perpetuate the OT of this thread but are the recordings you refer to the AAM recordings?...If so, I to would be keen to hear of more recommendations.

Regards

Ed

Last OT post to this thread. If you would like to continue, I recommend that you go to the AA Music forum. This is one of the only forums on AA that is not loaded with shills and hyper-opinionated idiots.

Yes -- Academy of Ancient Music. Most everything Hogwood did is good, although the performance practice is now a bit dated. But, you need to hear the Beethoven cycle just to get a feel for what Beethoven actually heard. Compare that to, say, the Szell rendition. You should also look into Hogwood's Mozart compete wind concertos on period instruments, including natural horn. Individually or a three CD set.

If you are into Haydn, try the Franz Brueggen "Paris" and "London" symphonies with the Orchestra of the 18th Century.

Ther are any number of good period instrument baroque bands around. For Vivaldi violin concertos, Giuliano Carmingnola with Andrea Marcon and the Venice Baroque Orchestra is tops. You probably don't need another "Four Seasons", but get his anyway. A bonus is two concertos by Pietro Locatelli that are really good.
If you like a more traditional reading of Vivaldi, try Pinkus Zucherman's the-rest-of Op8 with the English Chamber Orchestra. An interesting touch is a bassoon instead of a 'cello for the continuo part. Zucherman also has a credible rendition of the Mozart violin concertos with the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra.

I could go on and on.

Bob
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Old 23rd February 2007, 02:49 PM   #38
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Cheers for that Bob (and Ed) -I'll have to look into some of those.
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Old 19th July 2007, 04:19 PM   #39
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OK, after much procrastination on my part, I am gonna make these.
One question to anyone who knows, the Lowther BIBS seem to have a much larger mouth area than others, dictating a size that will really test WAF.
How would these work if I cut down the mouth area to something like for the Fostex ones, and can I get away without a resistor (weak amp)
Graham
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Old 19th July 2007, 05:20 PM   #40
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Volume of the enclosure is taken as Vb=20*Vas*Qt^1.25
The CSA is the answer to the above equation divided by 0.5 line length.

Therefore, if you have a middling Vas & Qt, then the Vb & thus the footprint of the cabinet will be somewhat larger than what you would have if one, or both, of the aformentioned driver parameters were on the low side. Unfortunately, Lowther's claimed T/S parameters are a little 'optimistic' shall we say. If you reduce the CSA / footprint, you'll loose LF gain & tyhe driver will have to work harder.

GM actually designed this box before he came up with the aforementioned equation, but it should be pretty close.

Best
Scott
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