It would take far more than a few negative comments to achieve that right now, especially as I'm listening to them whilst typing, but thanks. I will be building the wedgie version shortly.
Brsanko, at this time I'm not particularly interested in learning a software package to design my own speakers, but if you have designed (or better yet built) a compound horn based on the FE126e I'd love to see the plans.
Just to add, as it happens, I like compound horns & their variations, although they can be somewhat more complicated to design / build & I don't regard them as an automatic necessity in all times & in all cases. Done properly, they can work extremely well of course.
The FH is certainly not perfect, which is why the intention is to eventually heavily revise / replace it when time permits. Frankly, were I to design one myself, I'd modify the objectives; either keeping the box the same size & change the sonic goal, or visa versa. However, I'd say calling the existing design a waste of drivers is excessive. The fact is, a lot have been built, and most builders have been happy with them. Given that you can't please everyone all the time, that's a result. Yes, it's very true that some other designs are ultimately be more capable in x y z areas, but the initial design criteria of the FH was to fit a very specific configuration, and within this context, it does rather well.
The FH is certainly not perfect, which is why the intention is to eventually heavily revise / replace it when time permits. Frankly, were I to design one myself, I'd modify the objectives; either keeping the box the same size & change the sonic goal
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I just want to encourage everyone to try designing compound horns with Hornresp. It's not as difficult as everyone imagines, and the results can be amazing. The reason I am so gung ho about them is they allow you to get the full dynamic range out of your speakers. The first horn we designed using Hornresp was concieved as a simple FE126E RLH with the dynamics in the bass maximized. but when we listened to it the mid and high frequencies were all but drowned out. So we added the front horn and wow everything came into balance and the dynamics were so amazing I never wanted to listen to anything again. Sorry I don't want to take over this thread or rain on anyone's parade but I have found the method that brought my nirvana and now I can't shut up about it.
They can have that effect for a lot of people. 
Re the compound business, as GM points out earlier in the thread, if you design for the highest gain practical within the bass (back) horn's BW, then typically you'll either have to damp it down to ~match the efficiency of the driver, or raise forward output SPLs via a short midrange horn, which should also help balance things if the driver exhibits a rise in its own output somewhere higher up the frequency band. No bad thing & often works very well.
Of course, if you want to maximise dynamics etc., then a 'proper' (front) horn with a compression chamber is the optimal way of doing it, but with FR drivers you'd need to support it with dedicated woofers etc. as a full-scale bass-horn is almost certain to be impractical.
Re the compound business, as GM points out earlier in the thread, if you design for the highest gain practical within the bass (back) horn's BW, then typically you'll either have to damp it down to ~match the efficiency of the driver, or raise forward output SPLs via a short midrange horn, which should also help balance things if the driver exhibits a rise in its own output somewhere higher up the frequency band. No bad thing & often works very well.
Of course, if you want to maximise dynamics etc., then a 'proper' (front) horn with a compression chamber is the optimal way of doing it, but with FR drivers you'd need to support it with dedicated woofers etc. as a full-scale bass-horn is almost certain to be impractical.
"Maximize dynamics" - Scott, you and GM and my using AJHorn - a marriage made in an asylum!GM never minds having a surplus of SPL, you Brits make do with everything that works (including some ships that theoretically can´t...
) and my current 5 m^2 workshop somehow limits my zeal.According to sims, 206 in a Sachiko redesigned to exponential (Herman the German) gives you 106dB up to 100Hz, the 206 gets up to there at ~1500...but I b****y can´t be a***d to design a front horn to fill the gap.
OK, I´m sober at the moment. I might rethink
Well we have built several compound horns with very wide range using a compression chamber on both sides of the driver with Excellent mid and treble response and great bass down to 40 to 50hz in a reasonable size. In fact we built one monstrosity (8 cu ft) with absolute full range (20hz-20khz) using a fair amount of EQ and 4 of the aforementioned Aiwa drivers per side. They will make fantastic stage speakers. I imagine they would be difficult to design without software but hornresp makes it so easy. You just have to compare the combined response with the open baffel response to see how much gain you're getting in the higher frequencies and then compare that to the published or measured speaker response to get a good idea of mid and high frequency response.
If you look at this thread it has the hornresp data and pictures of the speakers. Like I said in the thread the design is not mine so I don't have plans per se but it'll give you the idea.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140838&page=2
Look familiar?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1918491
5 items down as of this posting.
Could a Croatian member contact these guys in their native language and get more info?
dave
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1918491
5 items down as of this posting.
Could a Croatian member contact these guys in their native language and get more info?
dave
I'm learning about the frugel horns. I'd love to build a pair of these. Could I get an approximate build cost for the level 0?
I've been building up my system. Right now I have crappy garage sale speakers. My primary speaker option so far has been Klipsch's, but I'm having a hard time finding them used. Will these do well with a 40W tube amp?
The build seems relatively easy. I have a mitre saw, table saw, circular saw, etc... any other necessary tools?
Thanks much.
I've been building up my system. Right now I have crappy garage sale speakers. My primary speaker option so far has been Klipsch's, but I'm having a hard time finding them used. Will these do well with a 40W tube amp?
The build seems relatively easy. I have a mitre saw, table saw, circular saw, etc... any other necessary tools?
Thanks much.
2 major factors
- which drivers? - my own several builds have been exclusively with Fostex, ( FE126E mostly with the EnABL treatment), other folks have been happy with FE108E Sigmas, and other makes as well.
- type of material & finish - as is clear from the first few dozen pages of the thread, there's some difference of opinion as to the "best" material for these boxes. personally, I'd recommend 15mm Baltic Birch plywood
With something like the FE126E ( sens = ~93dB @ "1 watt"), 40 watts of tube power should be more than adequate - I'm quite happy listening the them with approx 10% of that power. The sonic signature of the amp won't have much place to hide.
patience ( a vital component in any DIYer's tool kit, and one I frequently find in short supply) , and clamps
lotsa clamps
(I cheat and use an air powered brad nailer whenever possible, and fill and veneer the enclosures)
Baltic birch... I'm guessing you have to find a special supplier for that. Is this what people mean when they say "BB"? By sheets do you mean 4'x8'? Or whetever that is in meters.
I think I'd definitely do the FE126e's to start and switch them out or do my own treatment later. Is something like this a good match for my 40W push-pull (Jolida 202A)? Everything I've read says horns+tubes=good.
Why veneer? Is the bare wood not nice looking? Or is it because of glue spills?
Additionally, is my room right for these? I would have to do some rearranging and wife-convincing to get them into true corners without a couch in front of one of the speakers. It's smallish living room (15x20) with one 8 foot opening to the rest of the house.
I have an office, but I'd really like everything to be in the common area, so my whole family can enjoy it.
Also, I was going to mention, in the future I am inclined to build some SET monos, so these seem to be a logical, somewhat future-proof choice.
While perhaps not entirely dependent on perfect location in corners for decent performance, from my experience with FE126E in what I'll call the "3 half sisters" ( BH MkI, Hornshoppe Horns and several levels of Frugelhorn build), I'd suggest that more or less symmetrical placement in respect to room boundaries and not obscuring either with furniture would be a minimal goal.
With the amount of available power and the room placement issues you describe that might preclude the above, I could suggest a couple of other enclosure designs and driver choices - utilizing either FE127E, or one of the wonderful Mark Audio drivers (CHR70/EL70 or Alpair 6 or 7).
I know for a fact that a pair of EL70's per side can fill a 16x30 ft open plan living/dining-room quite nicely with a 30 watt Sony receiver, and sound even more glorious and 3-dimensional with the right tube amp.
I'd never want to discourage anyone from trying a SET amp (which can vary in signature and personality as much as fullrange speaker systems), but achieving a "future-proof" system will be rather difficult.
yes, I think you'll find that BB generally refers to Baltic Birch plywood
the default sheet size of of the product I've been using for the past 5 or 6 years is 5ftxft or 1.524m square
as has been discussed before, there are other generic names used to describe this class of plywoods - "Russian, Finnish" birch and "ApplePly which is actually a trademarked brand name
many of these products are available in the more standard 4x8ft sheets
possibly, but not guaranteed
a combination of several reasons
- the "utility grade" of BB ply is not always free of cosmetic defects such as mineral stains and patched knot repairs on the veneer faces, and except for clear coat finishes, it can be a bear to stain
- a little glue seepage is pretty hard to avoid
- even though it's possible to fill and sand the grain pores of exposed ply edges, I'm just not a fan of the look, and prefer the more finished look you can get with veneers...
planet_10 hifi
a bit more involved than a basic level 1 build:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I bought some Klipsch KG4s on Craigslist instead of pursuing this project immediately, but I am still impressed with the Frugel-horn in general and I'd really love to build some of these. It can't hurt to have some extra speakers (my wife will think I'm nuts, of course).
I took a peek at Lowe's and they have 4' x 8' x 3/4" birch plywood. It did not say if it is solid birch though, which made me concerned that it's pine with a birch veneer. I didn't see "Baltic" on the tag anywhere either. I'll have to keep searching.
I took a peek at Lowe's and they have 4' x 8' x 3/4" birch plywood. It did not say if it is solid birch though, which made me concerned that it's pine with a birch veneer. I didn't see "Baltic" on the tag anywhere either. I'll have to keep searching.
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