Hi
I think I can correct also the low part who needs less power, or the high then it needs more power, in my eyes it is better to down the low part because it has also to be set lower sensitivity because of bas units, I do not use a dsp, I go analog and shelf the stuff.
I have some pictures I have also included my open baffle system so you can see what it is without much corrections, except a baffle correction, picture two.
I can afcourse do something wrong with measurements, I do measure with pc mic input with some boost, that is not the right way so I have build me a mic amp from the dipole guy and use line in from the pc.
regards
I think I can correct also the low part who needs less power, or the high then it needs more power, in my eyes it is better to down the low part because it has also to be set lower sensitivity because of bas units, I do not use a dsp, I go analog and shelf the stuff.
I have some pictures I have also included my open baffle system so you can see what it is without much corrections, except a baffle correction, picture two.
I can afcourse do something wrong with measurements, I do measure with pc mic input with some boost, that is not the right way so I have build me a mic amp from the dipole guy and use line in from the pc.
regards
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I think -25dB relative SPL is the system sensitivity, the first peak is the simply the bandpass port injection peak (you can flatten that with a smaller front chamber volume using filler phase plug, and making injection port larger). There is about a -10 to -12dB fall off that is normal after that. What you can do is make a peak or notch for the 500Hz peak, and make a -10dB shelf below 4.5kHz. That should equalize it for the most part. You really should try miniDSP - so easy to do vs analog filters.
If you look at what I did:
Grey line is raw non-EQ, you can see the EQ levels I used.
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I did put speaker on without a plate, but I did thought about go from square to round then surround don,t hit and port is larger.
Akabak however do not let see this. so sim is just a get in naburehood to start.
Nice graph, yes I see that you did need correction, this is why mid sound is to much present by me, that will colour the sound, also our ears are more sensitive there, we need really a dip around 3 khz to make it straight for the ears.
I do see the viston measure to 22 khz, this is quite high.
I do put picture here about the port idea.
What about the bass, you did not use the basreflex ports? it is off I thought to see, I use two 8 inch woofers so one port on one side, not two, I do put them left and right in the horn corner.
I do not now if this will work, I tow ports for one woofer is not possible.
regards
Akabak however do not let see this. so sim is just a get in naburehood to start.
Nice graph, yes I see that you did need correction, this is why mid sound is to much present by me, that will colour the sound, also our ears are more sensitive there, we need really a dip around 3 khz to make it straight for the ears.
I do see the viston measure to 22 khz, this is quite high.
I do put picture here about the port idea.
What about the bass, you did not use the basreflex ports? it is off I thought to see, I use two 8 inch woofers so one port on one side, not two, I do put them left and right in the horn corner.
I do not now if this will work, I tow ports for one woofer is not possible.
regards
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You have to use post 561 for graph, this is from REW these program measure with care because of room modes, (fast sweep).
it gives a much better idea, as you see.
this site has filters, I do use not dsp because I want little active elements.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/filters.htm
it gives a much better idea, as you see.
this site has filters, I do use not dsp because I want little active elements.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/filters.htm
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Good idea on adapter plate. I did not try bass reflex but I know that works where you redirect bass reflex back into periphery of horn mouth. Look at Weltersys' thread on the SynTriP speaker where he does just that. You can get extension down to 80Hz that way. On mine I use sealed back and can get 100Hz easily. 80hz with EQ but limited SPL.
I see your shelving filter - passive at line level then. Hard to get steep slopes that way - will need active op amps soon. When using op amps might as well go DSP.
Have make the shelf filter, but it needs a lot correction, like some of 18 dB to get it right. Visatons are just 87 dB 1 watt.
so much horn correction for the whole bandwith so much more distortion, so maybe i go make a small tweeter sersion, then I have a lot more succes or a other driver.
The open baffles still sound a lot better, but need afcourse more done with it, I do not now it is swuitable horn for high end audio, then I think need make two way tractrix or even three.
regards
so much horn correction for the whole bandwith so much more distortion, so maybe i go make a small tweeter sersion, then I have a lot more succes or a other driver.
The open baffles still sound a lot better, but need afcourse more done with it, I do not now it is swuitable horn for high end audio, then I think need make two way tractrix or even three.
regards
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The trouble of hollow sound is over, this was because I did give full signal inclusive low end, not it is fiterered from 300 hz, and no hpollow sound, I did read that colouring occur in horn when below its frequency cuttoff.
I do however see I get much signal differences because of room, 10 dB (plus min 5) is occur. efficienty is now same as big 8 inch, but then it comes from a 3 inch, that is impressive. Down from 108 dB watt to plus minus 93 dB watts.
If I do go make a tweeter tractrix extra it is a very high sensitive speaker system, only it is quite directed, I do miss the space the open baffles give to me.
PS the third photo is without shelf, pure audio out with 300 hz high pass thirth order.
regards
I do however see I get much signal differences because of room, 10 dB (plus min 5) is occur. efficienty is now same as big 8 inch, but then it comes from a 3 inch, that is impressive. Down from 108 dB watt to plus minus 93 dB watts.
If I do go make a tweeter tractrix extra it is a very high sensitive speaker system, only it is quite directed, I do miss the space the open baffles give to me.
PS the third photo is without shelf, pure audio out with 300 hz high pass thirth order.
regards
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Yes just one cap and two resistors high pass on input of the hybrid amp, who by the way is blown, the DN2540 mosfets are very very sensitive, I do go to normal fets the next time.
Maybe it is better to include a high pass in the crossover itselfs, on output of amp. horn need big time correction in my case plus minus -13 a 14 dB below 1.5 Khz.
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repaired again.
As I see, the 3 incher go as loud as the 8 incher who is 94 dB 1 watt, this mean that there is gain because of the cone surface is much different.
One problem, playing mp3 now give very harsh sound, it looks like resolution is so high mp3 compression sound is present.
As I see, the 3 incher go as loud as the 8 incher who is 94 dB 1 watt, this mean that there is gain because of the cone surface is much different.
One problem, playing mp3 now give very harsh sound, it looks like resolution is so high mp3 compression sound is present.
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Yes, the tractrix is very revealing due to extreme sensitivity and low distortion. You will need at least 320k MP3 to sound good. 94dB is a very good result with minimal line level passive shelf filter. Your response looks very flat and usable now - you did a great job with it. Once you add the bass support it will really sound good.
Yes next step is needed, the bass system, now I play with bass support of the big tl sub and a open baffle because I have oly one horn.
Maybe I go even for a tractrix tweeter and build a horn for it, so I need a lot les compensation for respons, it is easy to make and go from 3 Khz and higher. But first I go try other speakers also of 3 inch.
I keep on played with the horns, the hollow sound is gone, was the low tones who are not filtered below cutoff frequenty horn, I did read that is very important, so 24 dB filtering is maybe the best way, I did use 18dB who did oke.
Is there a way to use a shelf in the output of the amp? between speaker and amp, I did see somewhere but do not now where.
regards
Did put some on youtube, look fast because youtube remove it fast when rights are not oke. it is recorded with a mobile phone so it sounds not as it shoult be, but maybe some impression.
https://youtu.be/VPGYuPCOb2U
regards
https://youtu.be/VPGYuPCOb2U
regards
Sounds very nice - even for a mobile phone. Are you augmenting bass with your 8in woofer in a separate cabinet? What are you doing for the crossover?
Thanks for sharing - I would say that this is a success despite the -13dB shelf filter. You are still at 94dB and and the directionality makes very clear because you are not having to listen to noise reflected off of the walls.
With active, I would have boosted above with 13dB where cone motion is miniscule and you would have maintained sensitivity at lower frequency.
I have read some about tractrix horns, even the tweeter versions have fall off problems above 6 Khz, this is tractrix common? what concerns filtering, cone breakup occurs more easely when amplify the high part of frequenty, both has problems, but Go make a discrete jfet fliter who can do boost up above that part, but for both cases amps has to work extra, and maiby distortion is higher there.
I have found that a 6 dB highpas filter can be used on output to correct, so I try that.
I have the bas from excisting open baffe system, but horn is some dB louder as the rest, so 94 is some dB more. I go also put in a impedance correction because it go up above 6 Khz, this wil make sound better because to better crossover impedance.
I have now a 3e order linkwitz crossover on 300 Hz used.
But i ddo listen more, I get more feeling with horns, she do fine, have a lot of details, feeling of singer standing by my face whispering lovely things.
Sounds very realistic, dispite the negative reaction from my in older posts.
Some nice reading about the tractrix horns, making such a lath is interesting.
http://volvotreter.de/roundhorns.htm
regards
I have found that a 6 dB highpas filter can be used on output to correct, so I try that.
I have the bas from excisting open baffe system, but horn is some dB louder as the rest, so 94 is some dB more. I go also put in a impedance correction because it go up above 6 Khz, this wil make sound better because to better crossover impedance.
I have now a 3e order linkwitz crossover on 300 Hz used.
But i ddo listen more, I get more feeling with horns, she do fine, have a lot of details, feeling of singer standing by my face whispering lovely things.
Sounds very realistic, dispite the negative reaction from my in older posts.
Some nice reading about the tractrix horns, making such a lath is interesting.
http://volvotreter.de/roundhorns.htm
regards
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Kees,
When it works right, the full range tractrix is the best sounding speaker I have ever heard. Hang in there and you will be rewarded with the most revealing and dynamic speaker capable of large variations in dynamic range yet not ever feeling taxed.
You make me miss my old Trynergy (been in storage for a while now). I might have to take it out and fire it up again. Maybe this time with a quasi transient perfect Harsch XO.
When it works right, the full range tractrix is the best sounding speaker I have ever heard. Hang in there and you will be rewarded with the most revealing and dynamic speaker capable of large variations in dynamic range yet not ever feeling taxed.
You make me miss my old Trynergy (been in storage for a while now). I might have to take it out and fire it up again. Maybe this time with a quasi transient perfect Harsch XO.
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Trouble is so much ears, so much speakers. But yes I do hang on there, not time for the bass section, however I need to find the Off statement ik akabak about the basreflex, and I go also try outher 3 incher wideband speakers in it, I am curious now.
Also I sak myself why not a round throat where the whole speaker is visible, do this make bandwidth problems? most tractrix are that way, the versions with also tweeter and such.
regards