Karlsonator - Page 4 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd July 2013, 03:09 PM   #31
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
IG81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
But it doesn't use the paragon reflector for anything? How is that cool?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi IG81,

I agree w/ Squeak's assessment in Post #26, that the standard Karlson enclosure will not make full use of the Paragon style reflector. Maybe using two Karlson clams pointed at the reflector while maintaining the Paragon style dual low frequency horns, and some JBL slot radiators for the very high frequencies? In other words replace the JBL mid-frequency horns w/ clams?

Regards,
Only a rough sketch and it would indeed be hard to make it work without any kind horn or whatever firing more directly at the reflector. Just one of many half-baked ideas hanging out on my imageshack account.

IG
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2013, 03:15 PM   #32
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Virginia
Squeak,
The sims with bare driver definitely show more pronounced lobes as a function of angle. These were tedious measurements to make and display. Which is probably why no one does it. I won't be making bare driver measurements but know that AkAbak sims show angular dependence 500 Hz and up.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2013, 05:24 PM   #33
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Virginia
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi xrk971,

That's a great looking graph in Post #27. What does the vertical response look (or sound) like?

Regards,
I have't made vertical measurements but sims show bass is lower and treble higher up as expected. I think sims of vert are somewhere back in kicks butt thread.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2013, 08:25 PM   #34
GM is offline GM  United States
diyAudio Member
 
GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chamblee, Ga.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IG81 View Post
My guess would be only B*L or Mms could affect things in the midrange as they do here. It is getting close to 110dB, no way! Does Akabak run any kind of sanity-check on parameter sets?

IG
K alignments are no different than any other, i.e. the lower the Qts, the higher the tuning required and vice versa, so with a published ~311 Hz HF mass corner, the vented cab math says to tune it to ~62 Hz on the low end and centered at ~117 Hz on the high end based on my 6th order BP math for dummies [or ~124 Hz if one uses the old 2:1 R-O-T], which should fill in the big lower mids gap as well as increasing efficiency to a lower F to better match to the driver's rising on axis response.

This greater cab loading will in theory damp some of its HF BW enough to flatten/roll off it somewhat. This will require some serious rigidity though, so FC construction is contraindicated.

Actual bass of course will be minimal as we're always 'robbing Peter to pay Paul', trading efficiency for a wider gain BW.

GM
__________________
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2013, 02:36 PM   #35
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Virginia
Default Karlsoator with Beta 10CX

Has anyone ever tried the Karlsonator with an Eminence Beta 10CX PA driver? This is a really nice powerful driver that seems attractively priced. It will need the coaxial CD for the built in horn, or add a K-tube CD externally. I ran a simulation and adjusted the top channel by increasing it by 1.3X to get more bass amplitude to balance it out a bit. The f3 is 39 Hz (95.6 dB at 1 watt 1 meter), not too bad. If I were to build a full scale K'nator, I think I might go with this driver for a bang for the buck consideration.

First plot is freq response at 1 m, second is impedance, third is cone displacement (well controlled), fourth is impulse response (very clean).

The flat bass shelf on this combo can't be beat (IMO).
Attached Images
File Type: png Karlsinator-Beta10CX-Freq-1m.png (33.7 KB, 924 views)
File Type: png Karlsinator-Beta10CX-Impedance.png (24.8 KB, 424 views)
File Type: png Karlsinator-Beta10CX-Displ.png (24.7 KB, 410 views)
File Type: png Karlsinator-Beta10CX-Impulse.png (17.0 KB, 414 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2013, 10:02 PM   #36
freddi is offline freddi  United States
diyAudio Member
 
freddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
fwiw I've run the newer model Beta 10cx in a standard slit-vent K12 and liked it quite a bit. Eminence's crossover values of 2mH/10uF lowpass and 3.3uF/0.35mH highpass work well. The older model Beta 10cx had lower qts. The last B10cx I bought were a bargain at $39.95 each
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2013, 08:18 PM   #37
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
The original "classic" Karlson cab was sold mostly as a DIY flatpack which was designed to work with a variety of drivers and on some preconceived (right or wrong) notion of what had WAF.

As charming as it is (jamikl, I'd say more generally mid century modern aka soft googie, rather than Danish furniture design. In fact it looks just as much as something Glenn of California (of Altec Lansing Laguna fame) could have made with its slanted feet),
I don't think the Karlson was designed, in the sense that it was a piece of industrial design. AFAIK, the design originates Karlson himself, an engineer, and the form is rather secondary to the function. The dramatic slot was not an aesthetic flourish. The Paragon, on the other hand, was professionally designed in Berkeley, CA by Arnold Wolf, a well known industrial designer.

AFA distinctions between "soft googie", mid-century modern, "Danish modern", etc; these are contemporary categories and distinctions. All of these styles would have been considered "International Style" or simply "modern" at the time.

Quote:
I think it would behove us to reverse engineer the design, understand exactly how it works (and how it doesn't) and separate the different aspects of it from each other.

This, rather than just mindlessly copying the same basic design (somewhat flawed I understand) over and over.

I fail to see your point. The whole purpose of this design is to do just that. It's not like there's been thousands of people copying this obscure design over and over anyway.

Last edited by Greg B; 25th July 2013 at 08:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2013, 08:24 PM   #38
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post
Actual bass of course will be minimal as we're always 'robbing Peter to pay Paul', trading efficiency for a wider gain BW.

GM
Exactly. In the original Karlson design(s), there's an overabundance of gain in the mid to upper bass. Trading some efficiency off to get a wider gain BW was my intent. IOW, Peter actually has a few shekels too many, and Paul is a bit low on funds.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2013, 08:56 PM   #39
freddi is offline freddi  United States
diyAudio Member
 
freddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
are there virtues to be had with a Karlsonator 15 vs K15? - would it roughly be a 15/12 Karlsonator 12 - or somewhat different? what field of parameters would be desirable for a Karlsonator 15? would it fix the hole seen in the simple type below?

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by freddi; 25th July 2013 at 09:16 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2013, 09:38 PM   #40
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Virginia
A Karlsonator 15 will reach 30 Hz with full bass punch with a 15 in driver. A K15 has trouble getting below 50 Hz. But the difference is that the K15 works better in open spaces away from a back wall.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's xrk971 Full Range 1162 24th December 2014 07:05 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:55 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2