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Old 3rd September 2010, 11:21 PM   #131
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigun View Post
Probably two drivers some distance apart creates their own nasty surprises with interference effects at the listening position so your gut feeling is to be trusted.

actually, I should have said "we'll play with that ourselves in the FH3 sometime after the long weekend" - my gut feeling was based on trying dual FF85K in a "milli" sized box a while back - sounded quite well, but the experimental paint finish was a disaster
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Old 4th September 2010, 02:07 AM   #132
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Well in that case I'll look out for some interesting reports sometime next week !

The learning continues...

Can you tell me, what is the as-designed cut-off frequency for the FH3 (I guess it's not supposed to be driver dependent but just in case it is I'll specify the FE126En) when used in 'free space' and 'against a wall' ??

Is this the same as the cut-off of the low pass filter formed by the choke, and is it the same as the mouth cut-off ?

If my questions don't make any sense to anybody I won't be surprised - these things are still a bit mysterious to me !
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Last edited by Bigun; 4th September 2010 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 4th September 2010, 05:46 AM   #133
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See post 24

dave
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Old 4th September 2010, 07:11 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigun View Post
...what is the as-designed cut-off frequency... Is this the same as the cut-off of the low pass filter formed by the choke, and is it the same as the mouth cut-off ?
Hi Biggie, you want the horn to have a certain bandwidth. If the low-pass was in the very same range as the mouth's cutoff, it would be a very quiet horn So it must be higher.

From what I've read (not claiming to really understand), the F3 of the total design would be based on the quarterwave action, the bandwidth of which is below the horn action. In other words, the "mouth cut-off" is where the horn runs out of bandwidth but there's something else below that, filling in the very low end, which is a function of the design's effective length (rather than mouth size). Or so I've read

In my limited experience, the horn loading adds a lot of excitement to the sound. When a soundtrack or orchestra suddenly kicks in with tympani or brass, it's very dynamic and effortless. The only quasi-problem I've encountered is that the horn-loaded bandwidth can outshine the non-horn loaded but that's a nice problem to have.

This design, by the way, looks exceedingly clever and yet at the same time, beautifully simple and compact.

Last edited by rjbond3rd; 4th September 2010 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 4th September 2010, 03:54 PM   #135
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Hi Biggie, I stress that I'm just a newb but here is another way to think of it.

The horn's response is a hump (maybe a nice flat plateau in-room). The choke low-pass would be the right side of the horn's hump (which will ideally sum flat with the rest of the system).

It seems the system's response, going from lowest frequency to highest, would be: quarter-wave response, blending / summing with the horn action's low end, across a plateau of the horn's flat bandwidth, moving on to the low pass of the choke, chosen so that it sums nicely with baffle diffraction (presumably), then on to just the direct radiation of the driver at some point.

(Of course room modes are another set of variables so this imperfect description is idealized, I guess.)
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Old 7th September 2010, 05:46 AM   #136
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Default So What Becomes Of The FH1 Owners?

I'm one of the 15 intrepid souls that built the original FH1 flat pack kit. It's funny how time flies; I've been so busy listening (and enjoying them) that I haven't even put the supra-baffles on yet! I'll get to that in the next decade.

I must admit a tinge of jealousy regarding the rework of our mighty little speaker; the FH3 looks a LOT easier to build, and I like its sweeping, curvy design aesthetic even more than the FH1. What really makes me jealous is the assumed improvement in performance. The original FH1 had some issues in "cuppiness" and took a fair bit of time to tune and get right. A wee bit too fussy - and not forgiving enough for the average home-builder, if you ask me...

I just learned through this thread that the FE126E driver has been discontinued. As Murphy's Law has it, I'll probably now end up needing a replacement driver - since they are no longer available.

My question is, what other drivers might be a good drop-in replacement for the 126E? Will the new 126eN play well in the original FH1 with some chamber tuning?

Regards all,
Dennis
San Diego, CA
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Old 7th September 2010, 06:14 AM   #137
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Quote:
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Will the new 126eN play well in the original FH1 with some chamber tuning?
Dennis,

FE126En should be real close.

And i'm sure FE126e will continue coming out of people's closets for a while. I also still have a few pair of FE126eN

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Old 7th September 2010, 02:11 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenio View Post
...had some issues in "cuppiness" and took a fair bit of time to tune and get right.
Hi Diogenio, how did you solve the cuppiness? Thank you in advance.
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Old 7th September 2010, 04:27 PM   #139
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenio View Post
My question is, what other drivers might be a good drop-in replacement for the 126E? Will the new 126eN play well in the original FH1 with some chamber tuning?

Regards all,
Dennis
San Diego, CA

well as far as Fostex is concerned (and for all they care if DIYers don't share their POV), and the numerous owners of Horneshoppe Horns who've already followed Ed's lead - the FE126eN is the drop in replacement / upgrade (don't be surprised to find a temporary surfeit of the earlier model showing up on the used market)
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Old 7th September 2010, 05:02 PM   #140
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RJBond:

Believe it or not, the biggest fix for "cuppines" was to just break in the driver! I also played with wall damping and tuning (size) the CC and discovered that it was just too finicky for my own personal agenda, hence my earlier comments. No fault of the designers, I now understand the strong implication that this is not a out-of-the-box "kit" per se - but rather a platform for one to tinker and experiment with. It will probably not sound quite right just by building to the print. One needs to tweak the driver, CC, etc. to make it shine. And shine it does once things are right.

I decided to enter the horn arena with these because I have rather limited speaker placement space in my room; their small size and visual aesthetic were big draws. All in all I feel it was a successful project. The fact that the FH1 platform has now been abandoned for a different internal structure speaks loudly...there are apparently better ways now learned to achieve the same objectives.

Go back through this thread and do everything that the experienced builders have suggested. I think you will ultimately be happy, but it will take some effort.

Cheers,
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