Scottmoose said:
...and the sentence of the Court upon you is that you be taken from this place to a lawful prison, and from thence to a place of execution. And that there, on a date determined by the Court, you be hanged by the neck until you are dead. And may the Lord have mercy upon your soul.
Ahem. Back on planet Earth, nice writeup I thought.
My gut feeling is still that something went wrong with the build (the dreaded MDF won't have helped matters), as the reported result contradicts considerable positive past experience. Either that, or, if the LF gain is expected to be similar to a 5ft tall multiway (albeit unspecified), then methinks the man doth expect too much from a relatively compact box.
LOL
I have been using my BLH's for 2 years now and they are the best speakers I have ever had. I like the bass they give, not too overblown.
Hornresp_BLH_Curvey?
Hi gerado,
Hornresp does fine with back-loaded horns. You just have to remember to combine the direct radiator output with the horn output. I'll attach two sample SPL response plots that I made quite a while ago.
By the way Scottmoose: "Did you and Ron develop a curved front version of Sachico or Bruce, a la Curvey Chang?"
Regards,
Hi gerado,
Hornresp does fine with back-loaded horns. You just have to remember to combine the direct radiator output with the horn output. I'll attach two sample SPL response plots that I made quite a while ago.
By the way Scottmoose: "Did you and Ron develop a curved front version of Sachico or Bruce, a la Curvey Chang?"
Regards,
Attachments
gerado said:
You should try a simple BSC filter. Don't dismiss the potential improvements that this can make, it is totally reversible so I don't see how it could hurt to give it a try. A passive BSC filter can make a dramatic improvement to a system that sounds too bright and harsh, it is really amazing what can be achieved. You will be very surprised at the amount of adjustment that can result, a bright speaker can be corrected to sound totally balanced and have very decent bass output.
Martin,
This week end I did one better than that, I have a DEQX which I briefly used to add some correction. DEQX allows you to do a number of measurements and corrections including in room equalization. So I did damp down the high frequencies on first attempt , and on second attempt boosted the bass from about 40Hz up. The driver really did not like it very much when I turned the volume up, but even at lower listening levels it remained thin and echos. Really not to my liking, which may be more to the point. I liked the 206 enclosure better, certainly much more bass, but not enough for me to live with.
I have attached some 'deconstruction' images of the 208 enclosure. Can anyone spot any errors I might be blind to?
This week end I did one better than that, I have a DEQX which I briefly used to add some correction. DEQX allows you to do a number of measurements and corrections including in room equalization. So I did damp down the high frequencies on first attempt , and on second attempt boosted the bass from about 40Hz up. The driver really did not like it very much when I turned the volume up, but even at lower listening levels it remained thin and echos. Really not to my liking, which may be more to the point. I liked the 206 enclosure better, certainly much more bass, but not enough for me to live with.
I have attached some 'deconstruction' images of the 208 enclosure. Can anyone spot any errors I might be blind to?
Attachments
deconstruction pictures
Hi gerado,
Basically the shape of this looks like it should have worked.
The questions I have have to do with the sealing of the speaker and the speaker chamber. It is unclear from the pictures whether the chamber was sealed all the way around to the horn path, and if the baffle was sealed on its sides, and to the top and bottom baffle supports. I can only see four screws, one in each baffle corner, that does not seem sufficient. Four more, right in the middle of the baffle sides would have helped (maybe they were there, or the baffle was securely glued in place?). Also the bottom of the front board came out a little too clean, like the left side of the chamber, defective glue joint? Anyway, your description sounds like air leaks, and around the driver they will kill the horn action.
I would clean off the broken MDF, attach two runners for the sides of the baffle, seal the whole thing as best I can, and give it another try. At least you'll get some more information.
Hope that helps,
Regards
Hi gerado,
Basically the shape of this looks like it should have worked.
The questions I have have to do with the sealing of the speaker and the speaker chamber. It is unclear from the pictures whether the chamber was sealed all the way around to the horn path, and if the baffle was sealed on its sides, and to the top and bottom baffle supports. I can only see four screws, one in each baffle corner, that does not seem sufficient. Four more, right in the middle of the baffle sides would have helped (maybe they were there, or the baffle was securely glued in place?). Also the bottom of the front board came out a little too clean, like the left side of the chamber, defective glue joint? Anyway, your description sounds like air leaks, and around the driver they will kill the horn action.
I would clean off the broken MDF, attach two runners for the sides of the baffle, seal the whole thing as best I can, and give it another try. At least you'll get some more information.
Hope that helps,
Regards
Attachments
gerado said:
I hate to bring this up again but why do I have this nagging feeling you haven't done a battery test on these babies? Please do, if only to humour us. You officially have every right to come back and say I told you so!
When I read what you wrote above...Remember you have to use the wires from the amp end to validate this test.
EDIT: Now I reread the thread and think you already know the phase, sorry 'bout that.
Cheers
No worries Cal
I do still get caught out with out of phase connections from time to time.
tb46,
the only non sealed joints are the front baffle as you say. Just 4 screws, but the fit was very tight. I would have sealed these as well once I was happy with the whole thing and played around with sound deadening material. The rest of the joints were air tight though on the photos it just looks like some might not be.
My conclusion is that I just do not prefer this combination and does not work in my room. It may just be a matter of taste . I much preferred the sound of a 120 liter heavily insulated and vented box with equalization than the horns I built with the 206 drivers. They seemed to be much smoother, less shouty and more listenable for long periods but did need a lot of help down low.
Luckily I enjoy building and it is the first attempt AND I have 2 horns to audition in a few days with the 206e. That is quite a nice position to be in. Its been fun but the 208 enclosure is not the one for me. I will build some more before concluding I am not a horn man
I do still get caught out with out of phase connections from time to time.
tb46,
the only non sealed joints are the front baffle as you say. Just 4 screws, but the fit was very tight. I would have sealed these as well once I was happy with the whole thing and played around with sound deadening material. The rest of the joints were air tight though on the photos it just looks like some might not be.
My conclusion is that I just do not prefer this combination and does not work in my room. It may just be a matter of taste . I much preferred the sound of a 120 liter heavily insulated and vented box with equalization than the horns I built with the 206 drivers. They seemed to be much smoother, less shouty and more listenable for long periods but did need a lot of help down low.
Luckily I enjoy building and it is the first attempt AND I have 2 horns to audition in a few days with the 206e. That is quite a nice position to be in. Its been fun but the 208 enclosure is not the one for me. I will build some more before concluding I am not a horn man
Sealing of driver chamber
Hi gerado,
From your Post #71: ...the only non sealed joints are the front baffle as you say. Just 4 screws, but the fit was very tight...
These joints must be sealed for this design to work. No seal there, no horn action.
I hope you'll give it one more try with the chamber solidly build and sealed.
Regards,
Hi gerado,
From your Post #71: ...the only non sealed joints are the front baffle as you say. Just 4 screws, but the fit was very tight...
These joints must be sealed for this design to work. No seal there, no horn action.
I hope you'll give it one more try with the chamber solidly build and sealed.
Regards,
Its been a little while since my last sad post, but I must say Im feeling a little better about things.
I listened to a pair of Jericho and a pair of Sachiko, both with the 206 but not in the same room or electronics. Both sounded much better.
I decided to build the Jericho purely because it looked like an easier build and I could modify the boxes I already built without much effort. The dimensions are identical to the plans except that my build is a few inches narrower. I took a gamble but it has worked. I have one finished and even with one it is a very pleasing sound, fuller bass and tuneful. The second box has a couple of hours to go.
Because I was building a narrower box, I did not know how it would affect performance. I did make the loading chamber bigger however, that way I can play with its size. It is easier to fill it to reduce its volume than enlarge it.
So far there are no tweaks or sound absorbing.
The bass is smooth, not lumpy, and the overall presentation enjoyable. It is by no means floor shaking, but within the limits of its frequency limitations sounds more right.
I will do some in room measurements once both are finished and see what Im hearing.
Any suggestions/advice are welcome.
I listened to a pair of Jericho and a pair of Sachiko, both with the 206 but not in the same room or electronics. Both sounded much better.
I decided to build the Jericho purely because it looked like an easier build and I could modify the boxes I already built without much effort. The dimensions are identical to the plans except that my build is a few inches narrower. I took a gamble but it has worked. I have one finished and even with one it is a very pleasing sound, fuller bass and tuneful. The second box has a couple of hours to go.
Because I was building a narrower box, I did not know how it would affect performance. I did make the loading chamber bigger however, that way I can play with its size. It is easier to fill it to reduce its volume than enlarge it.
So far there are no tweaks or sound absorbing.
The bass is smooth, not lumpy, and the overall presentation enjoyable. It is by no means floor shaking, but within the limits of its frequency limitations sounds more right.
I will do some in room measurements once both are finished and see what Im hearing.
Any suggestions/advice are welcome.
Hi gerado,
I just read your thread. I hope your enjoying your new FE206E BLH's now. I just built a set of BLH's as well and used the recommended Fostex design except I made a few changes with the help from a friend here who has built many horn projects. One modification was contouring the internal baffles so they were more tappered like a true horn (see photos in thread), add gussets, and round off ends. I also simplified the horn mouth. I know some people think this is a disaster doing these things as HF needs to be taken care of, but it has worked for me and very well too.
I used the "no no" MDF but it is 1" thick throughout with exception of the baffle and base which is 2" thick. They are very heavy 90kg each and don't seem to resonate at all. (wonder if you would have had a different result using thicker material?)
The sound is great. Less bass than my Dynaudio S1.4's and maybe not as "HiFi" but the musical factor is twice as good! I have never enjoyed my music as much as now. I'm enjoying instead of analysing.
A few tweeks I have carried out are, earthing the negitive to the basket, damping the frame with felt and bluetac and totally covering the magnet with felt. All made nice improvements. I might venture and try phase plugs but am happy with the sound at the moment.
All and all i'm a happy camper. I'd love to try a BIB design and the hornshop design but bigger scale with the FE206E. There is plenty of time yet.
Here's an insite to my horn construction, hopefully not breaking to many rules with the link.
http://www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=7666
BTW I'm using a Triode Corp 4SE preamp and Primare 33.2 power amp with Triode corp CD4SE player if your wondering what I'm driver the horns with.
Regards James.
I just read your thread. I hope your enjoying your new FE206E BLH's now. I just built a set of BLH's as well and used the recommended Fostex design except I made a few changes with the help from a friend here who has built many horn projects. One modification was contouring the internal baffles so they were more tappered like a true horn (see photos in thread), add gussets, and round off ends. I also simplified the horn mouth. I know some people think this is a disaster doing these things as HF needs to be taken care of, but it has worked for me and very well too.
I used the "no no" MDF but it is 1" thick throughout with exception of the baffle and base which is 2" thick. They are very heavy 90kg each and don't seem to resonate at all. (wonder if you would have had a different result using thicker material?)
The sound is great. Less bass than my Dynaudio S1.4's and maybe not as "HiFi" but the musical factor is twice as good! I have never enjoyed my music as much as now. I'm enjoying instead of analysing.
A few tweeks I have carried out are, earthing the negitive to the basket, damping the frame with felt and bluetac and totally covering the magnet with felt. All made nice improvements. I might venture and try phase plugs but am happy with the sound at the moment.
All and all i'm a happy camper. I'd love to try a BIB design and the hornshop design but bigger scale with the FE206E. There is plenty of time yet.
Here's an insite to my horn construction, hopefully not breaking to many rules with the link.
http://www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=7666
BTW I'm using a Triode Corp 4SE preamp and Primare 33.2 power amp with Triode corp CD4SE player if your wondering what I'm driver the horns with.
Regards James.
Thanks James
I am pleased you like your speakers. They look good.
I actually liked the 206 enclosure in many ways , but I initially built the 208 enclosure which by most accounts is better- but not for me.
I have been listening to the Jericho I have since built and this is much much better.
This may not be an "approved" tweak but I have an equalizer in the chain to boost the bass a little more to my liking and tame the top end a little. This works well for me and though you do loose something doing this, you do gain in other ways.
I have had them long enough now and still like them to dress them up so they can come in the house.
I am pleased you like your speakers. They look good.
I actually liked the 206 enclosure in many ways , but I initially built the 208 enclosure which by most accounts is better- but not for me.
I have been listening to the Jericho I have since built and this is much much better.
This may not be an "approved" tweak but I have an equalizer in the chain to boost the bass a little more to my liking and tame the top end a little. This works well for me and though you do loose something doing this, you do gain in other ways.
I have had them long enough now and still like them to dress them up so they can come in the house.
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