There isn't a consensus unfortunately. 
It rather depends on what it is you're looking to achieve, how large a cabinet you can handle, how complex a design / build you can handle, what aesthetic concerns you might have, what sort of sound you like etc. (?)
Moving on, couple of other points come to mind. Firstly, mouth size does not really determine how low a cabinet will go; it's the horn length / flare that does that. Look at the BIB -relatively small mouth & easy 30Hz. What the mouth-size does do is determine how low in frequency you'll get an impedance match between diaphram & air. As for diagnostics -it's almost impossible to tell without being able to physically examine them I'm afraid. What I can say is that several people have built the ESigma cabinet for the 206 in the past, and are very pleased with the results -there was even a write-up about one in Affordable Audio a couple of years back: http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2007-06.pdf
So there are a few possibilities -either you were expecting a little too much, or there's an error somewhere with the build, or some other problem. You don't say what you made them out of, but ideally, it wants to be birch ply -MDF is a no-no; it's got problems enough at the best of times, but for horns, it's even worse. You also don't say how much experience you have with FR drivers & horns generally? Horns tend to have a very different sound from a regular BR box for e.g., which can be a culture-shock, and often a love / hate thing. Some do, some don't.
FWIW (not much) the 208/206 box used to be one of my recommendations for the semi-budget-conscious wanting a simple-to-build design; I've slowly revised my opinion of it over the past couple of years or so; it still should be reasonable, but there are other options out there that offer superior performance -Ron's DallasII, to give one example.
It rather depends on what it is you're looking to achieve, how large a cabinet you can handle, how complex a design / build you can handle, what aesthetic concerns you might have, what sort of sound you like etc. (?)Moving on, couple of other points come to mind. Firstly, mouth size does not really determine how low a cabinet will go; it's the horn length / flare that does that. Look at the BIB -relatively small mouth & easy 30Hz. What the mouth-size does do is determine how low in frequency you'll get an impedance match between diaphram & air. As for diagnostics -it's almost impossible to tell without being able to physically examine them I'm afraid. What I can say is that several people have built the ESigma cabinet for the 206 in the past, and are very pleased with the results -there was even a write-up about one in Affordable Audio a couple of years back: http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2007-06.pdf
So there are a few possibilities -either you were expecting a little too much, or there's an error somewhere with the build, or some other problem. You don't say what you made them out of, but ideally, it wants to be birch ply -MDF is a no-no; it's got problems enough at the best of times, but for horns, it's even worse. You also don't say how much experience you have with FR drivers & horns generally? Horns tend to have a very different sound from a regular BR box for e.g., which can be a culture-shock, and often a love / hate thing. Some do, some don't.
FWIW (not much) the 208/206 box used to be one of my recommendations for the semi-budget-conscious wanting a simple-to-build design; I've slowly revised my opinion of it over the past couple of years or so; it still should be reasonable, but there are other options out there that offer superior performance -Ron's DallasII, to give one example.
Scott,
I have read a few of your posts and value your opinions. Thank you.
I do not have any single driver or horn experience - fair bit with other speakers but not this combo.
I did build them with the no no material MDF, As to what I expect , I did like the 206 enclosure a friend has and was anticipating better not worse.
My requirements are a box that can sit in our living room , so the narrower the better but its ok if a little tall- ideally a meter or less. I enjoy the wood work and as long as no specialized woodworking tools are needed will be able to build. 40 to 50 Hz within 3bd down is fine, I can always equalize a little if needed.
The single driver sound with its phase coherence and point source is quite magical and worth giving up a little at the extreme frequency ranges.
I have read a few of your posts and value your opinions. Thank you.
I do not have any single driver or horn experience - fair bit with other speakers but not this combo.
I did build them with the no no material MDF, As to what I expect , I did like the 206 enclosure a friend has and was anticipating better not worse.
My requirements are a box that can sit in our living room , so the narrower the better but its ok if a little tall- ideally a meter or less. I enjoy the wood work and as long as no specialized woodworking tools are needed will be able to build. 40 to 50 Hz within 3bd down is fine, I can always equalize a little if needed.
The single driver sound with its phase coherence and point source is quite magical and worth giving up a little at the extreme frequency ranges.
What have you done to counteract the 10db climb inherent in the driver?
Then baffle step may or may not be an issue depending on the rear wave leaving the mouth.
The peak at 2.7khz may be adding some shout.
A phase plug always helps................
Maybe there is too much midrange sneaking out of the horn.
If I remember, some ran the 206e with a resistor.
"The one pictured is an 8-ohm, non-inductive unit. It fills out the sound nicely and is a BIG improvement. The AA guy who brought it up said he uses 5 ohms and I've seen another comment that 4 ohms works great."
Some have also attached the frame to the speaker's negative terminal.
Some even coat the cone with damar.
I've had luck with a bit of twisted cotton balls between the whizzer and the cone.
Some have also said they need 300 hours on them.
I've never owned or played with a 206e.
I'd try run it on a 24" wide baffle crossing at 200hz (the f3 baffle step) and run 6db baffle step with a pole of 1khz. The 4db increase (in the high end) still present should be fine sitting 10' away due to less dispersion of an 8" than a dome tweeter.
or
play with a 10 band eq to see any frequency imbalances.
My baffle step problem was evident using a 10 band.
Much has been said on this driver.
I think with mucho work, it could work outstandingly.
Norman
Then baffle step may or may not be an issue depending on the rear wave leaving the mouth.
The peak at 2.7khz may be adding some shout.
A phase plug always helps................
Maybe there is too much midrange sneaking out of the horn.
If I remember, some ran the 206e with a resistor.
"The one pictured is an 8-ohm, non-inductive unit. It fills out the sound nicely and is a BIG improvement. The AA guy who brought it up said he uses 5 ohms and I've seen another comment that 4 ohms works great."
Some have also attached the frame to the speaker's negative terminal.
Some even coat the cone with damar.
I've had luck with a bit of twisted cotton balls between the whizzer and the cone.
Some have also said they need 300 hours on them.
I've never owned or played with a 206e.
I'd try run it on a 24" wide baffle crossing at 200hz (the f3 baffle step) and run 6db baffle step with a pole of 1khz. The 4db increase (in the high end) still present should be fine sitting 10' away due to less dispersion of an 8" than a dome tweeter.
or
play with a 10 band eq to see any frequency imbalances.
My baffle step problem was evident using a 10 band.
Much has been said on this driver.
I think with mucho work, it could work outstandingly.
Norman
Step loss is not an issue; -3db should occur at ~311.35Hz; the horn provides gain up to this point, cancelling out the loss. The peaking inherent to the driver should also be partially attenuated by the damping provided by the horn, although not entirely.
The 206 is better listened to slightly off-axis for a ~flat response, so firing the cabinets in the straight ahead position (or with less toe-in than normal) often works better than a more usual setup. A shelving filter might assist if you wish to stick to on-axis listening; 6ohms paralleled with a 1mH inductor should be a start, and phase plugs are pretty much mandatory if you want to get the best from the drivers.
One suggestion -you say a mate has the 206 cabinets? If he's agreeable, try hauling your drivers round to his place, stuff them into his cabinet, and have a listen. That will soon solve if there are any issues with the drivers -you might have a duff pair; unlikely, but not impossible, and the 206 can take an age to come good if used in a horn. If all is well, then my guess is either you've made an error in the construction (no offense, just stating possibilities), or you simply don't like the balance. The regular 206 box has a large hole in the upper bass / lower midrange which some people prefer -nothing wrong with that, to each their own & there's no point in having something you don't enjoy, so given your cabinet size limitations & the fact that you've heard & like it, if you want the no-brainer solution, that would be it. If you want an alternative, more advanced design (but one you again haven't heard), I'd take a gander at Ron's DallasII. Just do yourself a favour; whatever you build, don't use MDF. You're tying one hand behind your back from the outset if you use that dratted stuff for a horn.
The 206 is better listened to slightly off-axis for a ~flat response, so firing the cabinets in the straight ahead position (or with less toe-in than normal) often works better than a more usual setup. A shelving filter might assist if you wish to stick to on-axis listening; 6ohms paralleled with a 1mH inductor should be a start, and phase plugs are pretty much mandatory if you want to get the best from the drivers.
One suggestion -you say a mate has the 206 cabinets? If he's agreeable, try hauling your drivers round to his place, stuff them into his cabinet, and have a listen. That will soon solve if there are any issues with the drivers -you might have a duff pair; unlikely, but not impossible, and the 206 can take an age to come good if used in a horn. If all is well, then my guess is either you've made an error in the construction (no offense, just stating possibilities), or you simply don't like the balance. The regular 206 box has a large hole in the upper bass / lower midrange which some people prefer -nothing wrong with that, to each their own & there's no point in having something you don't enjoy, so given your cabinet size limitations & the fact that you've heard & like it, if you want the no-brainer solution, that would be it. If you want an alternative, more advanced design (but one you again haven't heard), I'd take a gander at Ron's DallasII. Just do yourself a favour; whatever you build, don't use MDF. You're tying one hand behind your back from the outset if you use that dratted stuff for a horn.
No you didn't. You wrote 'fostex measurements are to much smooth, no IMP.' Don't blame other people for misunderstanding if you're not precise.
As for your accusations, who is the potentially interested party here? Dave posted an impedance plot he measured in response to your request for measurements. The thread-starter does not require a pair of drivers. By definition, he is not an interested party; he is not trying to sell anything. You, on the other hand, can be considered an interested party: you unsubtly recommended one of your cabinets (which you sell plans for) in your first post, and the thread-starter is considering a new enclosure.
Dave,
I use a couple of different amps
SS aksa 100w lifeorce or
Cary 805 tube amp
Scottmoose, you make some good points
the drivers should be ok because they do sound good in a bass reflex enclosure with some equalization for the bottom end- I was expecting them to sound faster and bigger in the horns with that snap in the lower register not totally absent.
I would be very happy if I indeed made an error no offence taken. The argument against MDF is also clear, not again.
I will take them inside , listen and open them up if no good
might post some pics of the guts of it before completely trashing them.
I use a couple of different amps
SS aksa 100w lifeorce or
Cary 805 tube amp
Scottmoose, you make some good points
the drivers should be ok because they do sound good in a bass reflex enclosure with some equalization for the bottom end- I was expecting them to sound faster and bigger in the horns with that snap in the lower register not totally absent.
I would be very happy if I indeed made an error no offence taken. The argument against MDF is also clear, not again.
I will take them inside , listen and open them up if no good
might post some pics of the guts of it before completely trashing them.
gerado said:
I'd use the Cary to and play with damping settings (probably best with none), and try all the different output taps. If even after you get at least 100 hrs on them and none of those settings work, then i'd suggest you have a leak somewhere inside the cabinets (i find it a little disconcerting that you think you can actually get one of the sides off.
dave
Sounds like it's not the drivers then.
Opening them up... hmm. Sounds a bit easy... as Dave suggests, leak-paths are the bane of horn construction; worse, it's easy to get one without noticing during construction. FWIW, the most likely time for them to emerge is in the final stage of construction. Most horns are built by laying one side flat, and gluing the front, rear, top, bottom, and internal panels to it, before finally sealing things up by adding the other side. If even one panel is slightly too narrow... that's one common possibility anyway.
Opening them up... hmm. Sounds a bit easy... as Dave suggests, leak-paths are the bane of horn construction; worse, it's easy to get one without noticing during construction. FWIW, the most likely time for them to emerge is in the final stage of construction. Most horns are built by laying one side flat, and gluing the front, rear, top, bottom, and internal panels to it, before finally sealing things up by adding the other side. If even one panel is slightly too narrow... that's one common possibility anyway.
I should get a chance over the coming week end to set the whole thing up inside and give the setup the optimum conditions.
I do not think the room will make such a huge difference but you never know.
If no good I will try and dislodge one side off , either way its coming off dead or alive! If there is a need to do it I will do it and examine how the glue is distributed and if there are any gaps.
I any event the Dalas2 seems to have a following. I looked at the plans on Ron's Horns section
http://www.frugal-horn.com/ronhorns.html
but I was not clear in my own mind if these plans are all thats needed to build them. I am not confident that the angle values are all I need without actual distance measurements from a reference point to space the internal horn structure panels. Or does it all just work itself out based solely on these plans.
Having heard these drivers in a horn half worth listening I really do want to build a good one. The ease of listening and enjoyment they bring is worth spending more time in solitude away from family building them.
I am still open to more suggestions what to build next. I am coming to the conclusion it will come to that in a few days anyway.
I do not think the room will make such a huge difference but you never know.
If no good I will try and dislodge one side off , either way its coming off dead or alive! If there is a need to do it I will do it and examine how the glue is distributed and if there are any gaps.
I any event the Dalas2 seems to have a following. I looked at the plans on Ron's Horns section
http://www.frugal-horn.com/ronhorns.html
but I was not clear in my own mind if these plans are all thats needed to build them. I am not confident that the angle values are all I need without actual distance measurements from a reference point to space the internal horn structure panels. Or does it all just work itself out based solely on these plans.
Having heard these drivers in a horn half worth listening I really do want to build a good one. The ease of listening and enjoyment they bring is worth spending more time in solitude away from family building them.
I am still open to more suggestions what to build next. I am coming to the conclusion it will come to that in a few days anyway.
Ron's DallasII is probably the most advanced compact back-horn around, but it's not an easy build, and following an HDD crash a couple of years back, the plans have had to be reconstructed somewhat. I believe Dave is planning on re-drawing them, but it's a case of not enough hours in the day.
There are a handful of horn designs out there of an appropriate size. We've mentioned the DallasII, and the stock Fostex cabinet (which you've heard & say you liked). The old Jericho cabinet is still fairly decent http://www.plasmatweeter.de/jericho.htm & does OK with the 206. There is the Solo 206 -a stretched version of the defunct Fostex BK201 design: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Solo206.html Horst has an omni-directional cabinet, although you'll need to buy another pair of drivers to use it. There are a few others, like Sachiko (also on the FH site), Tom's S.P.Q.R. model III, the evergreen BIB, or even a Nessie resonance tube style of 'BLH' but they would all be too tall for your taste.
TBH, as you say you liked the factory box design, I'd just build that & enjoy.
There are a handful of horn designs out there of an appropriate size. We've mentioned the DallasII, and the stock Fostex cabinet (which you've heard & say you liked). The old Jericho cabinet is still fairly decent http://www.plasmatweeter.de/jericho.htm & does OK with the 206. There is the Solo 206 -a stretched version of the defunct Fostex BK201 design: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Solo206.html Horst has an omni-directional cabinet, although you'll need to buy another pair of drivers to use it. There are a few others, like Sachiko (also on the FH site), Tom's S.P.Q.R. model III, the evergreen BIB, or even a Nessie resonance tube style of 'BLH' but they would all be too tall for your taste.
TBH, as you say you liked the factory box design, I'd just build that & enjoy.
Yes, of course they're detailed enough for a build. Those are the ones that people have been using for several years. It's just that it's not quite as straightforward as some others, that's all.
Hmm, yes, that is one of the problems with the stock box -pretty is not a word that exactly springs to mind. I'm not sold on their performance either, although as always, YMMV. They suit some people well enough. FWIW, feedback on Sachiko has been extremely positive; however, I designed the things, and thereofore on principle I do not recommend them over anything else. If you run a search here however, you should find some feedback, and there's a review of a pair built by Jeff Carder under the Madison name linked to on the plans page. They are big cabinets for a big space however, and therefore, like anything else, not suited to everyone.
Hmm, yes, that is one of the problems with the stock box -pretty is not a word that exactly springs to mind. I'm not sold on their performance either, although as always, YMMV. They suit some people well enough. FWIW, feedback on Sachiko has been extremely positive; however, I designed the things, and thereofore on principle I do not recommend them over anything else. If you run a search here however, you should find some feedback, and there's a review of a pair built by Jeff Carder under the Madison name linked to on the plans page. They are big cabinets for a big space however, and therefore, like anything else, not suited to everyone.
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