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Old 23rd November 2008, 01:22 AM   #1
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Default Coating+phase plugs to FE167

This could have been posted on my Chilli thread - Chilli Chang review/mod but is mainly about apllying some of Dave's mods to the FE167.

Please read both parts of this, the first sounds slightly negative but comes good on the second part?

Part 1 - Coating the FE167 cone . I found some Mod Podge (aka Puzzlecoat) in my local Arts and Crafts store, so took the divers out and gave them a single light coat. This is a very quick and easy operation and as it seems to be a modified??? PVA glue dries very quickly. So within half an hour you can be up and running again.

To be brutally honest, I was a bit disappointed in the results, the sound seemed to marginally "harden" up and voices sounded ever-so edgy? but I think I gained a little more "zing" in the top frequencies. Now I suspect some people would prefer this mod' but I rather like the softer sound of the original driver. So at this stage I'd have said I could have lived without this mod - however this is permanent but that didn't worry me as we are only talking small differences.

Part 2 - I'd order a set of phase plugs from Dave and they arrived a few days ago. Now this was definitely more scary I'd never attached a driver with a scapple before and could just imagine the damage I was about to do? Well actually if you follow Dave's pictorial installation and you haven't had 5 bottles of vino the night before it's rather easy.

Final result - WOW - what a different driver - mids are just soooo crisp, defined and smoooth. I always liked the original drivers voicing but with the phase plugs this sounds a whole heap better still! Now this qualifies Part 1 above . with the clarity of the phase plugs the about coating comes into play and that "zing" in the top end just adds the shine up there? And the phase plugs have brought back that natural sound of voice but allows the coating to better control the cone and so adding to the overall improvement.

Click the image to open in full size.

Picture doesn't show this but there is a faint gloss on cone after coating.

And yes - I'll probably EnABLe them at a later date.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 23rd November 2008, 08:17 PM   #2
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Default Leap of faith

Not really OT since I am breaking in the 167e I bought now.

But today I did the Damar treatment on one of my 127e's I was slow to come around to doing this.

Results are yet to be determined on that but my experiences with some inexpensive Pioneer 4 inchers with Damar have been good.

Did you wind up with any or many brush strokes from the mod podge?

I have some and have done a bit of that both straight out of the bottle and diluted.

I hope the Damar'ed 127 works out well. The varnish treatment gives the driver an 'antique look' that I don't know if I'll get comfortable with.

Examining the unit after Damar showed that the paper was translucent yet or maybe newly so. I did not compare to the other one I have untreated. I got just a wee bit on the cloth surround.
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Old 23rd November 2008, 09:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: Leap of faith

Quote:
Originally posted by loninappleton
But today I did the Damar treatment on one of my 127e's I was slow to come around to doing this.
Hi - I also bought some Dammar but luckily mentioned this before use - see http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...26#post1649426 Dave replied back quickly he doesn't use this much?? And I got another reply that it (Dammar) might be better with more heavier repair work.

If you think about it (which I didn't) varnish is a rigid/hard coating where as Mod Podge is pretty light and is supposed to have some flex in it??.

I did get some brush marks on the cone but you'd have to get extremely close to see and the colour of the driver isn't really effected except for a light gloss.

I'd be very interested to hear what you thought your drivers sounded like after your treatments.

I'd certainly recommend phase plugs, they just raised the speaker to a new level.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 23rd November 2008, 10:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Leap of faith

Quote:
Originally posted by loninappleton
Damar treatment on one of my 127e
Did you do the whole cone?

dave
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Old 23rd November 2008, 10:46 PM   #5
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Hi Dave - as there is a heap of stuff out here about EnABL could you point me at a single thread/web page for the pattern/dimensions of the EnABL layout.

And can you use any "paint" for the dots.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 23rd November 2008, 10:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Re: Leap of faith

Quote:
Originally posted by greenie512
where as Mod Podge is pretty light and is supposed to have some flex in it??.
Puzzlecoat retains flexibility until you use alot and or do both sides -- ie i'll do 3-5 fairly thick coats on the front and 2-3 coats on the back of a paper cone woofer i'll be using for sub duty. The "constrained" layer result of doing both sides stiffens things up quite a bit. You loose top end, but in this application that is a feature.

As i do it on FRs the prime purpose is to bond the top layer of fibres together to reduce cone self-noise. As well, i suspect (from listening and the resulting impedance curves) that it reduces the Q of the cone's resonances.

Greenie, i always do 2 coats on the raw paper cones... the 1st one sits into the paper of the cone, and the 2nd sits on top of the 1st coat creating a continuous layer .

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Old 24th November 2008, 12:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: Re: Leap of faith

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


Did you do the whole cone?

dave

Yes, whole cone and dustcap. I was so pleased with the other job done that way so I duplicated that. If there's another option (I think trifoil was mentioned but not sure) I have another one that I can switch out of my first BIB.

What is your suggestion? A picture would help.

One thing I have noticed is that these old 127e's have a lot of flex after 7 years-- just touching it with the brush gives some movement.
But in my MLTL the 127e has less life (pre Damar treatment.) It remains to be seen if the varnish brings it back. It sure is odd that the inexpensive Pioneers are the one to beat in this household.
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Old 24th November 2008, 12:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: Re: Re: Leap of faith

Quote:
Originally posted by loninappleton
Yes, whole cone and dustcap. I was so pleased with the other job done that way so I duplicated that. If there's another option (I think trifoil was mentioned but not sure) I have another one that I can switch out of my first BIB.

What is your suggestion? A picture would help.

One thing I have noticed is that these old 127e's have a lot of flex after 7 years-- just touching it with the brush gives some movement.
But in my MLTL the 127e has less life (pre Damar treatment.) It remains to be seen if the varnish brings it back. It sure is odd that the inexpensive Pioneers are the one to beat in this household.
My gut feeling is that the damar will exacerabate the peaky bits. It will be interesting to hear your take.

the trifoil pattern + the puzzlekoat (they work together) makes these peaky bits much less objectionable,

They have been making FE127e for 7 years? I thought they were newer than that.

dave
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Old 24th November 2008, 03:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Leap of faith

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


My gut feeling is that the damar will exacerabate the peaky bits. It will be interesting to hear your take.

the trifoil pattern + the puzzlekoat (they work together) makes these peaky bits much less objectionable,

They have been making FE127e for 7 years? I thought they were newer than that.

dave
Still need to see what a trifoil pattern looks like.

In my other experiments with the Pioneers and after doing a bit of listening today I'd have to go with the Damar vs Mod Podge. But my listening style is different from the usual stereo pair.

Not sure about the release of the 127e. It seems to have been in the Madisound catalog forever and I got mine while at my current residence. I must've had them for at least 5 years.
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Old 24th November 2008, 04:25 AM   #10
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more detail linked from my Fostex FE12xeN page

dave
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File Type: jpg fe126en-trifoil.jpg (72.2 KB, 1435 views)
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