Using the new 2012 Shigaclone to create a killer high end transport

tonyptony · 1st August 2012, 06:40 PM

Now that payments are being made and production is starting for the 2012 Shigaclone

Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story

I thought we should start a new thread with recommendations for how to turn this latest version into a giant killer of a transport. First of course, great thanks needs to go out to our friends in Poland, Peter Daniel, Tvicol, Jazz35, and anyone else I forgot to mention. None of this would have been possible without this team's collective work.

With Tibi's okay it seemed like a new thread would be a good place to start this phase of discussion for the 2012 Shiga. My proposal is that we work on creating a transport that can go up against the likes of the ML 31.5, CEC TL0, Linn CD12, Wadias etc. I know there is no one "best transport in the world", just as there is no single best of anything in high end audio, but the plan is to try and get to a level where a tweaked Shiga can stand on its own against the most highly regarded transports of the past and present.

I’m not suggesting the new Shiga won’t sound good at the start – I suspect it will sound pretty darn good. The hope is to take it to the best it can be.

I further propose the following as a baseline definition:

Use the 2012 Shiga design currently in production as the starting point
Post (or link) the latest production schematics, BOM, PCB drawings etc
Use this thread to identify from the original Shiga thread(s), and any others, the key posts made to date which discuss advancing the design. I know this sounds vague, but rather than everyone searching through 600+ pages of one thread, plus any other related threads, I'm hoping those who were part of some of those original tweak discussions can provide links here so we can have one place where this information has been filtered.

Once we start getting these units and have had a chance to understand what they can do, perhaps then we can identify the areas where tweaking may prove beneficial… areas like

Power supplies (parts swap, or going further like considering a Bobken)
Clocks (although Peter has some interesting things to say about this)
Output stage
Specific component changes
Chassis and mounting options
Ferrites and shielding

A lot of discussion has occurred in most of these areas. Many may be a good starting point for the 2012 Shigaclone. Those with test equipment who can help quantify any improvements would be a great asset. (I'm neither a complete subjectivist nor a card-carrying DBT'er. A combination of listening impressions and data would be a great thing to have.) Does this sound like a good plan?

valo · 1st August 2012, 07:26 PM

Cant wait to get my Shigaclone in door and start testing and compare it to the orginal

tonyptony · 1st August 2012, 11:35 PM

Okay, I'm still trying to figure out how to start this without everyone having to read through 6000+ messages. I think for those who haven't already done it, reading through the first several pages of the original thread (posted above) is a good thing to do. There's a lot more there, but read enough to get the stage set.

If you want to see then what Peter did from this thread, go here

The CD Transport

It's only 21 pages

, but there's a lot of good info showing where Peter went after putting the foundation in place.

Then there's a bunch of good info from uncle_leon on caps

Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story

Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story

But keep in mind the cap numbers in the Shiga using the original PCB are not the same as the numbers in the 2012 version. C916 in the original appears to be C43 in "this year's model"

. Additionally, uncle_leon may be working on consolidating all of his upgrade experience from the original Shiga. Perhaps when it's posted he'll help us migrate the relevant parts here.

There's also a lot of great tweak information (again for the original) by Erik van Voorst in the original thread.

If interested in examining a Bobken regulator to see if it might be worth using in the 2012 Shiga, do a search in the original thread for posts by CeeVee.

tonyptony · 3rd August 2012, 08:07 PM

Important documentation and sizing information

Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story

vicol audio : shiga CD transport

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...t_01082012.zip

dimkasta · 6th August 2012, 01:09 PM

Another very important part that will bother everyone even before the size/casing etc is the puck. Any suggestions?

tonyptony · 6th August 2012, 04:24 PM

Sean Henderson had a great suggestion here

Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story

But Tibi has indicated they are also working on a remote and a puck as part of the new effort.

Ivo-Cici · 7th August 2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyptony

Sean Henderson had a great suggestion here

Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story

But Tibi has indicated they are also working on a remote and a puck as part of the new effort.

Hi All
I am a little confuse regarding PUCK???
As I learn from tread "Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story" the best puck is Light puck... from ebony, aluminium...
I also try magnetic original... heavy from brass... and light from nylon... And for all that i fine nylon a best solution see the picture.
Any explanations or confirmation ???
Regards
Cici

TheGimp · 7th August 2012, 12:58 PM

I see two possible approaches to the puck. (1) as light as possible to minimize imbalance. (2) heavy within the limits of loading the motor so as to stabilize imbalance due to eccentricity of the CD itself.

Considering the weight of the CD and the fact that it's weight extends much further out than the puck, I believe light is the best way to go.

In addition, a heavy puck will load the motor more, although it might help with minimizing rotational variation.

Ivo-Cici · 7th August 2012, 03:55 PM

Yes the heavy puck it's perfect...see the picture!
But i prefer a ligth one!

zjaakco · 16th August 2012, 02:15 PM

Hi,
I like it that the Linn cd 12 is mentioned. It will certain not easy to equal
that quality. I still keep thinking why linn use a smps in that player.
Just people said don't use a smps in audio because the nois produced
by high frequency. But linn solve this problem.
And is it indeed that a lineair ps is not sufficient for high quality?
Is there anyone who can give a push in the right direction?

1st August 2012, 06:40 PM	#1
tonyptony diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Jersey	Using the new 2012 Shigaclone to create a killer high end transport Now that payments are being made and production is starting for the 2012 Shigaclone Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story I thought we should start a new thread with recommendations for how to turn this latest version into a giant killer of a transport. First of course, great thanks needs to go out to our friends in Poland, Peter Daniel, Tvicol, Jazz35, and anyone else I forgot to mention. None of this would have been possible without this team's collective work. With Tibi's okay it seemed like a new thread would be a good place to start this phase of discussion for the 2012 Shiga. My proposal is that we work on creating a transport that can go up against the likes of the ML 31.5, CEC TL0, Linn CD12, Wadias etc. I know there is no one "best transport in the world", just as there is no single best of anything in high end audio, but the plan is to try and get to a level where a tweaked Shiga can stand on its own against the most highly regarded transports of the past and present. I’m not suggesting the new Shiga won’t sound good at the start – I suspect it will sound pretty darn good. The hope is to take it to the best it can be. I further propose the following as a baseline definition: Use the 2012 Shiga design currently in production as the starting point Post (or link) the latest production schematics, BOM, PCB drawings etc Use this thread to identify from the original Shiga thread(s), and any others, the key posts made to date which discuss advancing the design. I know this sounds vague, but rather than everyone searching through 600+ pages of one thread, plus any other related threads, I'm hoping those who were part of some of those original tweak discussions can provide links here so we can have one place where this information has been filtered. Once we start getting these units and have had a chance to understand what they can do, perhaps then we can identify the areas where tweaking may prove beneficial… areas like Power supplies (parts swap, or going further like considering a Bobken) Clocks (although Peter has some interesting things to say about this) Output stage Specific component changes Chassis and mounting options Ferrites and shielding A lot of discussion has occurred in most of these areas. Many may be a good starting point for the 2012 Shigaclone. Those with test equipment who can help quantify any improvements would be a great asset. (I'm neither a complete subjectivist nor a card-carrying DBT'er. A combination of listening impressions and data would be a great thing to have.) Does this sound like a good plan?

1st August 2012, 07:26 PM	#2
valo diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: bodÃ¸	Cant wait to get my Shigaclone in door and start testing and compare it to the orginal __________________ -- http://www.polarboing.com

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1st August 2012, 11:35 PM	#3
tonyptony diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Jersey	Okay, I'm still trying to figure out how to start this without everyone having to read through 6000+ messages. I think for those who haven't already done it, reading through the first several pages of the original thread (posted above) is a good thing to do. There's a lot more there, but read enough to get the stage set. If you want to see then what Peter did from this thread, go here The CD Transport It's only 21 pages , but there's a lot of good info showing where Peter went after putting the foundation in place. Then there's a bunch of good info from uncle_leon on caps Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story But keep in mind the cap numbers in the Shiga using the original PCB are not the same as the numbers in the 2012 version. C916 in the original appears to be C43 in "this year's model" . Additionally, uncle_leon may be working on consolidating all of his upgrade experience from the original Shiga. Perhaps when it's posted he'll help us migrate the relevant parts here. There's also a lot of great tweak information (again for the original) by Erik van Voorst in the original thread. If interested in examining a Bobken regulator to see if it might be worth using in the 2012 Shiga, do a search in the original thread for posts by CeeVee.

3rd August 2012, 08:07 PM	#4
tonyptony diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Jersey	Important documentation and sizing information Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story vicol audio : shiga CD transport http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...t_01082012.zip

6th August 2012, 01:09 PM	#5
dimkasta Dimitris diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Athens	Another very important part that will bother everyone even before the size/casing etc is the puck. Any suggestions?

6th August 2012, 04:24 PM	#6
tonyptony diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Jersey	Sean Henderson had a great suggestion here Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story But Tibi has indicated they are also working on a remote and a puck as part of the new effort.

7th August 2012, 12:58 PM	#8
TheGimp diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Johnson City, TN	I see two possible approaches to the puck. (1) as light as possible to minimize imbalance. (2) heavy within the limits of loading the motor so as to stabilize imbalance due to eccentricity of the CD itself. Considering the weight of the CD and the fact that it's weight extends much further out than the puck, I believe light is the best way to go. In addition, a heavy puck will load the motor more, although it might help with minimizing rotational variation.

16th August 2012, 02:15 PM	#10
zjaakco diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2011	Hi, I like it that the Linn cd 12 is mentioned. It will certain not easy to equal that quality. I still keep thinking why linn use a smps in that player. Just people said don't use a smps in audio because the nois produced by high frequency. But linn solve this problem. And is it indeed that a lineair ps is not sufficient for high quality? Is there anyone who can give a push in the right direction?