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Old 19th September 2010, 05:26 PM   #4941
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Hi Simon

What type is your SME3009 (Fixed headshell?)

As you are needing a new cart, IMO you should try a recent MC.

You must decide this before starting to collect parts for the phonos.

Ricardo
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Old 19th September 2010, 06:04 PM   #4942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
Hi Simon

What type is your SME3009 (Fixed headshell?)

As you are needing a new cart, IMO you should try a recent MC.

You must decide this before starting to collect parts for the phonos.

Ricardo
Hi Ricardo
Just checked out the headshell on the SME 3009.
It appears to be removable with a small grub screw on the underside of the arm tube (have never removed it though).
The headshell is black and has lots of small holes perforated in the top and a series of holes of ascending size (front to back) on the sides.

Any cartridge recommendations for this arm Ricardo ?

Ones have heard people say work well include Garrott P-77, AT33PTG, Shure V15, Ortofon OM-30 Super, it's a bit of a mine-field and I would like to somehow pick a good one first off, zillions to choose from.

Some people say the best upgrade you can do to this arm is throw it in the dust-bin, others say with careful adjustment and the right cartridge it's hard to fault, and totaly up there.

Any thoughts on transformers with Salas phono, are they of benefit ?

Cheers Simon
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Old 19th September 2010, 06:10 PM   #4943
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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So your SME is a fixed headshell type with aluminium tube.

IMO the AT33PTG should be a good choice (If you can find one) but for starters I would experiment with a Denon DL160.

It also works very well with the Benz ACE family.

Salas phonos do not need any transformers.....
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Old 19th September 2010, 06:31 PM   #4944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
So your SME is a fixed headshell type with aluminium tube.
Hi Ricardo
Haven't loosened grub screw, why is it there if not for adjustment, is the headshell glued or pressed in at the SME factory.
Has been mentioned that cartridge size has to be modest due to limited headshell space, but looks like loads of room to me. Poster said not so much room for Grado woodies and fitted an ADC XLM MKII.
Have got the Denon DL-103/103R, DL110, DL160 on my long list, seems some think DL160 offers more resolution than DL103 but is less musical.
Comments welcome.
I would like to get a cartridge from a consistent and reliable maker who doesn't discontinue their product lines every 5mins, for obvious reasons.

Cheers again Simon
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Old 19th September 2010, 07:18 PM   #4945
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Space Egg Corp View Post
Hi Salas
Two very impressive threads and projects you have going.
Have read lots of both.
I am interested to do a shunt regulated phono.
The threads are so long I can't find the prefered schematics for both the regulator and phono.
Would you link me somehow with your prefered schematics for both.
Will continue to read the threads.
Looks like there are alot of sonic tune up types soldering Ohms & Farads in and out like crazy.
Lots of fun!
Can't wait.

Cheers Simon
Hi

Making stuff is most of this thread's volume and various evolutions and build journeys. To be specific with individual needs can't be easy. Especially those doubled up fet input higher gain builds are very sensitive in idss at hand and resistor values. And then people try parts etc. What I have done is to bring the core CCT from the older round up pdf up to date and throw in a trusty, easy to make it work V1 variable reg that can cater for two gain versions by just turning its trimmer. Those can work in spec easy, if you keep the idss as noted. Better ask for a matched 6pack and a few spares from dedicated jfet vendors than buy a bag and learn to find the adequate ones, also creating a pile of spares, if just targeting a phono build and no other jfet projects are on the horizon. One values table is 43dB for high out MC or MM and the other is 56dB for normal MC. The HiMC/MM is good for up to 2.5mV carts. If you have 5mV normal MM you make its R2=100R for 37dB. An LMC pre pre also to combine with the MM for 0.15-0.25mV carts. Other tweaked versions endeavours take experienced and tooled up approach and are specialized. I highly recommend p2p construction as any pcb attempt will be challenged for changes about better practical hum performance depending on experience and skill, also for passive parts tests which vary enormously in size and most builders will not resist. This post summarizes the best general advice I can give.

*If psgr is reading he can use those to update his pdf.
**PDF updated on Feb25 2011.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Salas-RIAA-V1102F0.pdf (191.1 KB, 2148 views)
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Old 19th September 2010, 07:23 PM   #4946
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Hi,
the 3009 has a Vnotch horizontal bearing. I'm told that this does not allow a low compliance MC to operate properly.
The TD160 has a thin C formed steel plate connecting the arm base to the turntable bearing. This has very little torsional stiffness. This is likely to ring when the energy from a high compliance MC is fed into it.

I think the Thorens and 3009 better suit high compliance MM cartridges.
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regards Andrew T.
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Old 19th September 2010, 08:43 PM   #4947
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Default Thanks very much Salas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
Hi

Making stuff is most of this thread's volume and various evolutions and build journeys.
Hi Salas
Thanks for posting the PDF's, I shall download and study them this evening.

As a minimalist and firm believer in low parts tallys, your designs seem to do the buisiness, where others have as many components as mission control Houston. Congrats on that (cheaper & easier PtoP as well, Ha ha).
I am pleased you think PtoP is the best option as I was thinking along those lines myself.

I eventualy shoe-horned my 21 year long last phono evolution into an unbeliveably compact chassis and this time around am going to be building with a 1u 19" 340mm deep chassis in mind.

Ricardo recommended the Denon DL160 as a new cartridge to suit my deck and arm, and having been one on my list have checked out a few reviews and it seems to tick all the right boxes. Output is similar to my Goldring cartridge and the Ortofon on my Dual as well, so it will suit my existing phono stage.

So without making too much of a snap decision, it looks like the Denon DL160 which seems to be a highly regarded and popular cartridge is what I will be building for, and fits the bill of not being a problem output/loading cartridge needing bizarre operating conditions to work well.

I am sure your a busy chap with a thread like this going but two brief questions.

Do you think I'm nut's considering useing batterys to power the phono stage, and if not, do you consider shunt regulating batterys offers any benefit.
Also being an instant fan of your shunt regulator circuit, I would like to fit shunt regulators to my diy tube microphone & diy tube microphone preamp, phantom power as well as HT. I downloaded some schematics for HT tube versions, but again wondered if there is a prefered version for HT regulation, in addition to the phantom power my HT voltages are 160v & 245v.
Might as well shunt regulate every thing and get a good deal on a bucket full of FETS (might even do my fridge!).

Thanks Salas all the best Simon
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Old 19th September 2010, 09:15 PM   #4948
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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A friend of mine has built a simplistic MM for a 3009 equipped TT and argues that the best fitting carts he has used on the SME were the Goldring MM and DL-160. The 160 is easily besting the Goldring according to him. Its much more compliant than the 103.

Batteries with cap bypass have been initially tried directly and this shunt reg really jumped them. The 200mA CCS would drain batteries even if just used as DC source to a reg very impractically so. I would think that the low impedance of a high value cap filtered, heavy Tx, and fast rectifier scheme will be the best practical option for DCin to the reg. You can use CLC pre filtering if you fancy. There are Hammond high mA cheap chokes. Go double mono Tx & regs if you care for optimum results. Keep regs in same box with the phono, and PSUs in another.

About HT regs there is a thread also.
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Old 19th September 2010, 09:38 PM   #4949
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Originally Posted by The Space Egg Corp View Post
Hi Merlin
I guess your very happy with the phono stage, have read some but not all of your tune up stuff, very good.

I made my last phono stage way back in 1988, and have listened to it (and messed about with it, Farad/Ohm/wire/PSU/bias swaping etc.) ever since.
It had been screwed to a book-shelf for 21 years (enough's enough I thought!) so last year I made a funky case for it which is now nearly wired up and finished. When the last blob of solder goes on, I want to seal the case like an ancient tomb, never to be opened again (am thinking to epoxy the lid shut, just kidding) and start making another one to mess about with, oh dear!

You asked me about the output of my cartridge, maybe you and other members can help me with some recommendations for my turntable.

I have a Thorens TD160b MK2, SME 3009 arm & Goldring 1006 cartridge.
Recently a friend of mine mashed the stylus into the deck and totaly busted it. This was quite heavy duty damage and although the arm seems to have survived, am not sure the cartridge has.
Since getting a new stylus is nearly as much as a new cartridge, I am thinking that I should try something different, not because I didn't like the Goldring but a change is a good thing.
I am sure that there are cartridges that would suit this deck/arm and Salas phono stage combo perfectly, but I have no idea out of the zillions available what to go for. Any idea Merlin ?

Since the Thorens is out of action and am currently useing my Dual, I am going to take as much time as needed to get the Thorens into tip-top order whilst I build the Salas phono stage.
Maybe you and other members have some good tips on how to best tune up the deck/arm with the chosen new cartridge. I am looking through diyAudio at the moment to try and find some related threads.
I am thinking of rewiring the arm with new RCA's and cartridge pins, doing any mains and motor mods that might be good, refinishing the plinth cosmeticaly and getting new lid, mat and disk clamp (recommendations on these are also most welcome).

I am considering powering the new phono stage with batterys (am I nuts?) but have not yet decided. I guess shunt regulating batterys is still a valid option, although wasteful of battery life, I can't work out if shunting batterys would be a performance improvement or not, ideas welcome.
I have also looked into Sowter phono transformers, and transformer attenuators, but am undecided (currently useing DIY Audio Synthesis PAS-02).

Quite alot of information here I know, I guess deciding on the new cartridge is step 1.

Thanks again for the post reply Merlin, keep up the good tuning work

Cheers Simon Mor MC ???
@ Simon,

I own a Denon DL103R & I'm happy, possible is not the ultimate resolution cart but very musical & combined with Salas NJFET RIAA sounds very good. Salas loves Transfiguration & Shelter top but I believe the Denon isn't too far & the relation quality price it's a bargain.

About batteries: mine advice go for Salas Shunt Low Voltage regulators, are very goods & ease to do it.

With Salas NJFET RIAA isn't necessary the step-up.

Let us know wich cart will use.
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Old 19th September 2010, 10:16 PM   #4950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
The 160 is easily besting the Goldring according to him.
Hi Salas

Yes I had the Goldring 1006, it was high compliance, until it got mashed.
It was ok but I'm sure it can be bettered if the arm is set up real good (which I'm lead to believe is tricky). I'll have to find a thread about SME 3009 set up next, as I'm sure my previous set up strategies can be improved on.

It's claimed the micro-ridge tip on the Denon can reach into the groove more to retrieve information from worn records played with larger heavier styluses, resulting in way less surface noise. Which in my case is a plus (50% of my records are imaculate, the other 50%, well, nuf said).

I Don't mind winding the odd coil or two, but I think I'll let the people with the extra small fingers at Denon take care of this mission.
The D160 it is then, Quick order one and keep fingers crossed !

Batteries - "Yeah forget about it" as Al Pacino would say.

Thanks for the link to the HT regs for the tube microphone stuff.

Cheers again Simon =MC sq.

Last edited by The Space Egg Corp; 19th September 2010 at 10:24 PM. Reason: Incorrect Al Pacino Quote.
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