Very well said Joachim.....I only hope that others appreciate how much you are doing for a lot of us. It seems that you may now be able to continue without the distraction of too much confusion.
Well, a lot of people apreciate what i do and some may also do but choose to attack me.
My mother used to say "When you step a dog on the tail it barks". Love and hate are just the same feeling but on oposite sides of the same coin. Ultimately i do not leave my critiques cold and i like that to a certain degree. Often, out of controversy there comes something good.
My mother used to say "When you step a dog on the tail it barks". Love and hate are just the same feeling but on oposite sides of the same coin. Ultimately i do not leave my critiques cold and i like that to a certain degree. Often, out of controversy there comes something good.
Just looking at the Vifa tweeter makes my fingers itch to cut off the mounting ring. A 19 mm dome in such a wide housing is an invitation to unnecessary lobing.
Tell me when you are ready. And give me a hint, what kind of beverage you would expect me to bring along.
Rudolf
I see this as the key ingredient for speakers that hide themselves (what is high on my priority list). I think you will achieve what you are looking for.
Not sure if I contributed anything good, but I would love to listen to the final result.
Oliver
Do you mean the Vifa Aluminum-Ceramic dome ? The OX tweeter on the other hand is already as small as posible. I will measure the Vifa and we will see.
Well, Rudolf, bring a good bottle of Riesling Sekt, some CD´s and Vinyl if you have, that will safe my day.
By the way i was in Menden about a week ago but my schedule did not allow a visit.
Well, Rudolf, bring a good bottle of Riesling Sekt, some CD´s and Vinyl if you have, that will safe my day.
By the way i was in Menden about a week ago but my schedule did not allow a visit.
Thanks !!!
I have read about HB's visit at yours. My "in-laws" live in Bönen, so accomodation shouldn't be an issue. Do you like red wine ?
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I see, you play it cool – good !
Again - wrong put.
You simply can not "avoid interference" - at least not as soon as two sources at different places in the room are involved.
##########
Besides that :
You have chosen to use a bowl as a housing for the mid.
Why?
Possibly because you had the idea that a sphere will be beneficial regarding ill effects of diffraction.
This might be true or not – I would suggest to double check that. Both with measurements and even more so by careful auditioning.
The point is:
a sphere helping you with respect to diffraction issues has to have a certain diameter with respect to the driver diameter. The design goal of mounting the chassis as close together as possible (as your speaker is intended as a near field monitor after all) will most possibly conflict with the size requirement of a sphere. Making a small sphere – say the diameter of the speaker or slightly more – well, at one hand you will not have enough volume and at the other hand the „benefits“ regarding less angeling at the rim of the speaker towards the bowl - and thus creation of less pronounced second sources there - get lost.
Looking at your design versus the original thus makes more obvious why the arrangement of the Stoll possibly was chosen as it is.
Again – you should double check the trade off between the sphere and close chassis mounting – unless of course – you already have fallen in love with those bowls for aesthetic reasons
BTW the Scan Speak mid speakers did perform pretty for me (especially for the price to pay) – looking forward how you rate them
Michael
Again - wrong put.
You simply can not "avoid interference" - at least not as soon as two sources at different places in the room are involved.
##########
Besides that :
You have chosen to use a bowl as a housing for the mid.
Why?
Possibly because you had the idea that a sphere will be beneficial regarding ill effects of diffraction.
This might be true or not – I would suggest to double check that. Both with measurements and even more so by careful auditioning.
The point is:
a sphere helping you with respect to diffraction issues has to have a certain diameter with respect to the driver diameter. The design goal of mounting the chassis as close together as possible (as your speaker is intended as a near field monitor after all) will most possibly conflict with the size requirement of a sphere. Making a small sphere – say the diameter of the speaker or slightly more – well, at one hand you will not have enough volume and at the other hand the „benefits“ regarding less angeling at the rim of the speaker towards the bowl - and thus creation of less pronounced second sources there - get lost.
Looking at your design versus the original thus makes more obvious why the arrangement of the Stoll possibly was chosen as it is.
Again – you should double check the trade off between the sphere and close chassis mounting – unless of course – you already have fallen in love with those bowls for aesthetic reasons
BTW the Scan Speak mid speakers did perform pretty for me (especially for the price to pay) – looking forward how you rate them
Michael
Michael, Mr.Stoll had the idea to rename the ZDL to TDL for "Total Diffraction Speaker".
Do you think that this is more apropriate ?
Yes, i know the probem that the sphere or "ball" solution has. I already experimented with damping the top. Another option is to put the Scan Wideband in a tube. I will try that out tonight. Another solution is to go 4 way like in the L`art du Son speaker. I already have the 15cm Scan Discovery midrange if a 3 way solution fails.
I have measured and listened to the Scan wideband in an open baffle. The results are published in my MPL thread. I played that system at ETF successfully and from judging by the response i got from professionals and semi professionals the sound quality is very natural, open and dynamic. Yes, i like this little driver much.
As to my mind it is as open and clear like spring in the Norvegian Lofotens and no, i am not in love with any speaker principle. I save that for my friends and family.
Do you think that this is more apropriate ?
Yes, i know the probem that the sphere or "ball" solution has. I already experimented with damping the top. Another option is to put the Scan Wideband in a tube. I will try that out tonight. Another solution is to go 4 way like in the L`art du Son speaker. I already have the 15cm Scan Discovery midrange if a 3 way solution fails.
I have measured and listened to the Scan wideband in an open baffle. The results are published in my MPL thread. I played that system at ETF successfully and from judging by the response i got from professionals and semi professionals the sound quality is very natural, open and dynamic. Yes, i like this little driver much.
As to my mind it is as open and clear like spring in the Norvegian Lofotens and no, i am not in love with any speaker principle. I save that for my friends and family.
There is somehwere a relationship between source, diffraction, interaction of drivers, and directivity to be optimum from each design goal. For close field, to many drivers certainly do not help no matter how they are time aligned. However, sometimes with other trade off consideration, one may take to go in that direction.
For example, if we have a vibration mode like this at 19KHz, is it good or bad? This depends on the application. What about the polar for that frequency? Again, it depends on the tradeoff.
For example, if we have a vibration mode like this at 19KHz, is it good or bad? This depends on the application. What about the polar for that frequency? Again, it depends on the tradeoff.
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The hardware is just an old notebook computer with an Echo Indigo io sound card. The software is Ultimate Equalizer developed by Bodzio Software. More information can be found here.
Home Page
The Indigo io takes the inputs from the output of built in sound card of the notebook, Ultimate Equalizer does the equalization, and drive active speakers from the output of the Indigo io. Very simple hardware. However, I think the what kind of measurement to be used will be the critical issue. But even without such knowledge, the audible improvement and CSD improvement is very significant. I have also noticed difference interconnects make in measurement, so it is interesting as well. I will be updating my measurement interconnects with the same one I use for listening soon.
Home Page
The Indigo io takes the inputs from the output of built in sound card of the notebook, Ultimate Equalizer does the equalization, and drive active speakers from the output of the Indigo io. Very simple hardware. However, I think the what kind of measurement to be used will be the critical issue. But even without such knowledge, the audible improvement and CSD improvement is very significant. I have also noticed difference interconnects make in measurement, so it is interesting as well. I will be updating my measurement interconnects with the same one I use for listening soon.
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Ok, i forgot. I think you already told me that it is part of the Sound Easy software. I think i have to upgrade to the new version.
I measured the 19mm Vifa ceramic tweeter. Just look at it first. The only commend right now is that the 90° measurement is the most problematic and again the measurement from straight back ( 180° ) looks surprisingly decent.
I measured the 19mm Vifa ceramic tweeter. Just look at it first. The only commend right now is that the 90° measurement is the most problematic and again the measurement from straight back ( 180° ) looks surprisingly decent.
I have not used the one that is part of SoundEasy, but the one that is stand alone. The next version is expected to be released as an individual product, and it has the measurement capability integrated. I have used version one of this, and also beta tested version 2. The measurements I have posted is from Version 2. This is what I would recommend for the last step of speaker performance.
The measurements seem to show the effects of diffraction from 3KHz up.
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Yes, I had not thought about the dynamics of digital equalization before. Lot's of people take about the terminology etc. But when you mentioned it improves the stored energy situation, a bit deeper thinking made it clear to me that it does makes sense. What is the best way to apply it still needs a bit more exploration. How can a driver be improved to work hand in hand with this also needs further exploration. But the improvement trend has caused me to start converting all my CDs to a network disk giving more flexibility to listening to music. Polarity is still an important issue. However, the difference between phase of a band limited linear system and a system with a totally flat phase response going to be an interesting issue. Since UE has the capability to not equalize phase, the experiment should be easy.
I just did a switch to "equalize amplitude only". This means the phase is like a linear system. What is the audible difference? First, the preferred polarity is back to the setting I originally felt better and more realistic. However, when equalizing the phase to be flat at zero degrees, it seems like I am sitting in a small room connected to a large room (speakers are only 20cm from back wall). The delayed reflections of the original performance is more significant, the low level detail becomes more distinct even though the level does not seem to be more.
Is this what phase distortion is causing? I do not what to speculate. But the difference is audible to me.
Is this what phase distortion is causing? I do not what to speculate. But the difference is audible to me.
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