Snoopy you seem to be still missing the point. There have been thousands upon thousands of hifi equipment reviews done via magazines and on-line which are all done subjectively and understood by most of us except it seems by you.
Where have you been during the last thirty years of audiophile review?
I have made a contribution that opens room for further exploration you have made nothing more than a repeated monotonous fuss against adventure and harmless enthusiasm.
Can you please stop it now so that we can concentrate on the crossover and any new ideas that might help some of us further our enjoyment of hifi.
Where have you been during the last thirty years of audiophile review?
I have made a contribution that opens room for further exploration you have made nothing more than a repeated monotonous fuss against adventure and harmless enthusiasm.
Can you please stop it now so that we can concentrate on the crossover and any new ideas that might help some of us further our enjoyment of hifi.
audiojoy said:
Usually backed up by extensive objective testing using the latest test equipment of course
So we agree to disagree but like the moderator said this thread was about your NS1000 crossovers so lets stick to that.
My friend had a pair of NS1000M's. When he got them one of the woofers was poling because after years the pole piece or magnet sagged due to gravity and eventually pinched the voice coil. We managed to realign the pole piece by removing the dust cover and carefully using a large screw driver and mallet, and by hitting the pole piece on the back of the speaker in front of the magnet, was able to realign the pole piece and free the voice coil. He'd also managed to get a replacement woofer at the time so ended up with a spare !!
The problem with the NS1000 as i recall was a woolen and weak bottom end. The mid and top end was superb even with the stock standard crossover. I agree with what you have done to refurbish the crossover with new caps etc but adding bits of silver wire etc I can't really see that doing much at all.
Hey snoopy, don't worry. People that can't (or doesn't want to) learn to put together good speakers and electronics from scratch (and the complex physics behind) have to resort to component swapping to feel they are doing something useful about audio. Well, they can also earn some money (rather than wasting it) by writting reviews for hi-fi magazines or by selling exotic components for 10 times what they are worth
It has been that way for the past 30 years and it's likely to be for ever.
Long life to people like Siegfried Linkwitz.
It has been that way for the past 30 years and it's likely to be for ever.
Long life to people like Siegfried Linkwitz.
I'm not sure if I'd call the bass woollen (what does that mean?). It does have an early roll-off, but I have heard them sound quite adequate -in a restrained manner- in the bass region (though never in my own setup). I have to use a subwoofer to get the full spectrum, especially with electronic instruments. I'd love to re-engineer the Yamahas with a bass reflex enclosure to give it a bit of strength down low. But when I get onto this line of thinking, I eventually end up with a speaker that only inherits the mid driver from the NS1000, and nothing else.
I'm following this thread with great interest as I have a good friend who uses the Yamaha NS1000, and I have long suspected that his speakers would greatly benefit from a replacement of the caps. I have scads of really wonderful caps of various values sitting around and I'll have to take an afternoon some time to pay him a charity visit with a box full of caps and my soldering iron.
So please do keep posting your results!
Thanks.
-- Chris
So please do keep posting your results!
Thanks.
-- Chris
Audiojoy!
You said that you are not electronic man and you are based on "what you hear" as a final result with your modification and own experiment.
About the crossover:
For me the best inductors for the loudspeakers is without any core or air core winding, just copper wire or silver plated wire for the tweeter filter.Sometimes is a little problem to make high value inductor without any core and than a big diameter wire is needed because dc resistance will be quite high which is no good sign for the woofer.
For the mid range and highs the best of course is no core coils-air coils.
Also dc resistance is important but is very easy to wind coils for the mid's and high's due to no "very high values of the coils"-needed, I'll say no more than 1 to 2 mili henry's (mH).
I heard read somewhere for bifilar coils- coils winded with two different diameter of wires..... for the best results with "skin effect of the high freq. current" or maybe foil winded coils.
For the capacitors:every different type or different manufactured capacitor , of course with the same measured capacitance will gave different color of sound and this is the place to play a little game to choose what cap. is the best for the actual case.
My experience with the caps is that all bipolar elco types of caps. commonly sounds a bit warmer but slowly compared with foil caps MKP MKT e.t.c....
But for the tweeter filter for me is the best.
PS:
Now in the present time I am not even try to modify my crossovers without any measure equipment, or modifying by my own ears, that's what I done many times in the past but which ears are so sensible to hear a so flat freq. response of the loudspeaker, I mean + _ 3dB or less!!!
You said that you are not electronic man and you are based on "what you hear" as a final result with your modification and own experiment.
About the crossover:
For me the best inductors for the loudspeakers is without any core or air core winding, just copper wire or silver plated wire for the tweeter filter.Sometimes is a little problem to make high value inductor without any core and than a big diameter wire is needed because dc resistance will be quite high which is no good sign for the woofer.
For the mid range and highs the best of course is no core coils-air coils.
Also dc resistance is important but is very easy to wind coils for the mid's and high's due to no "very high values of the coils"-needed, I'll say no more than 1 to 2 mili henry's (mH).
I heard read somewhere for bifilar coils- coils winded with two different diameter of wires..... for the best results with "skin effect of the high freq. current" or maybe foil winded coils.
For the capacitors:every different type or different manufactured capacitor , of course with the same measured capacitance will gave different color of sound and this is the place to play a little game to choose what cap. is the best for the actual case.
My experience with the caps is that all bipolar elco types of caps. commonly sounds a bit warmer but slowly compared with foil caps MKP MKT e.t.c....
But for the tweeter filter for me is the best.
PS:
Now in the present time I am not even try to modify my crossovers without any measure equipment, or modifying by my own ears, that's what I done many times in the past but which ears are so sensible to hear a so flat freq. response of the loudspeaker, I mean + _ 3dB or less!!!
I have played with removing some of the stuffing
in my NS1000. The bass sounds more open but I think
theres a bass peak somewhere. Maybe we should built
a slightly bigger box with less stuffing.
Meanwhile check out this Jap site :
www.kameson.com/audio/NS-1000XKAI.htm
in my NS1000. The bass sounds more open but I think
theres a bass peak somewhere. Maybe we should built
a slightly bigger box with less stuffing.
Meanwhile check out this Jap site :
www.kameson.com/audio/NS-1000XKAI.htm
I had the NS-1000X version of these speakers for the better part of a year and they contained better crossovers then the lower level NS-1000 and NS-1000M. I thought they were very fine speakers, but a step below the best I have heard. They were, however, probably the best cone/dome style speakers I've encountered. I played around with them a bit, but they never seemed to draw me in and make me want to keep them. Good speakers, though. I'm glad the OP is happy with his mods. Nothing wrong with a little component swapping to keep the interest level up.
DBT is good and all, but is biased towards a null result. Very good at proving that "drastic" or "significant" differences might not exist. They do tend to be biased towards null results. There are more effective methods of testing observational differences, according to an experimental psychologist friend of mine. One day, when I have some time to absorb some more audio junk, I'll ask him for more detail.
DBT is good and all, but is biased towards a null result. Very good at proving that "drastic" or "significant" differences might not exist. They do tend to be biased towards null results. There are more effective methods of testing observational differences, according to an experimental psychologist friend of mine. One day, when I have some time to absorb some more audio junk, I'll ask him for more detail.
I can tell you the Fs of the NS-1000X woofer (JA-3114) is 39hz. The Qts might be 66.6 and the sensitivity 90dB 1w/1m.
If you know anyone that can translate japanese, there might be more info here:
and more info for the NS-1000X for those interested.
If you know anyone that can translate japanese, there might be more info here:
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and more info for the NS-1000X for those interested.
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Shaun said:
The bass mid crossover frequency of the NS-1000 is 500Hz and it's a bit of a big ask to get a flimsy 12 inch paper cone to work reliably up to these frequencies. Later versions use a carbon fiber cone for improved performance
Why on earth would you want to convert it to a bass reflex enclosure ??
Bass reflex enclosures have poorer transient response and typically sound muddy because excessive cone excursion below the box resonance frequency can cause large amounts of intermodulation distortion.
Eva said:Hey snoopy, don't worry. People that can't (or doesn't want to) learn to put together good speakers and electronics from scratch (and the complex physics behind) have to resort to component swapping to feel they are doing something useful about audio. Well, they can also earn some money (rather than wasting it) by writting reviews for hi-fi magazines or by selling exotic components for 10 times what they are worth
It has been that way for the past 30 years and it's likely to be for ever.
Long life to people like Siegfried Linkwitz.
Yes Eva a lot of people here could learn a thing or two from his informative and very detailed website about speaker design
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/On the other hand, if you keep them above the tuning frequency, they have less excursion than an acoustic suspension resulting in more linear operation. I wouldn't ever expect that someone would intentionally try to unload the speaker. I'd let the driver specs be my primary guide to whether or not I'd want to use ported vs sealed, not a failed implementation of either.
I love the Linkwitz Orions, but I prefer Geddes' method of using a WG over dipole operation. Ideally, I want a system with an implementation of each.
I love the Linkwitz Orions, but I prefer Geddes' method of using a WG over dipole operation. Ideally, I want a system with an implementation of each.
dnewma04 said:On the other hand, if you keep them above the tuning frequency, they have less excursion than an acoustic suspension resulting in more linear operation. I wouldn't ever expect that someone would intentionally try to unload the speaker. I'd let the driver specs be my primary guide to whether or not I'd want to use ported vs sealed, not a failed implementation of either.
I love the Linkwitz Orions, but I prefer Geddes' method of using a WG over dipole operation. Ideally, I want a system with an implementation of each.
You can only do this with additional filtering typically adding another second order high pass filter and integrating that with the total system response to give you a sixth order electro acoustic response and then your transient response suffers even more
Best to use a sealed enclosure where the diaphragm displacement is controlled below the system resonant frequency
Yamaha was on the right track with the NS-1000 but it wasn't until the NS-2000 that they got things right
Hi all!
JC951t thank you for sharing very good pic's from Japanese web, but unfortunately I don't speak any Japanese .
But everyone can see and understand from the pics what is the original and improved(modified) parts of the crossover.
Like I said in previous post, here we can exactly see an image example of my thought.This is exactly my taste of components for the crossovers.
The original caps. and coils look very ugly and also low performance for Hi-FI sound, all BP-bipolars( which after time will be very unstable due to dropping capacity, sometimes too much and destroy all frequency response of the complete loudspeaker, and all ferrite coils which is away of high end audio.
We ca clearly see that beautiful foil winded coils and they looks to me like gold plated foil perhaps, but even normal copper wire winding without core will be enough and much better than ferrite coils, just a more weight of copper, will be a little expensive but for the sound we are not willing to save some money, because this is a HI-FI hobby.
Also my suggestion to all who like to wind a air coils after winding is very important to put a solid layer of wire lack and plastic cable ties, three ties will be enough and than burn a little according to specification of the lack.This will tie copper windings and will be no mechanical resonance.
PS:
I never heard these speakers how they sounds, but I can modify that original crossover if someone can post TS parameters of all drivers woofer mid and tweeter.
My friend Vladimir Filevski ( audio scientist and inventor from Skopje -Macedonia) got an Clio measuring equipment and He made a lot of modifications to the original crossovers from some industrial speakers, and also a lot of own loudspeaker projects.
By the way he invent The flattest multimedia loudspeaker in the world which normally stays on a PC desk only plus/minus 2 dB's tolerance in audio spectrum!!! but I can modify that original crossover if someone can post TS parameters of all drivers woofer mid and tweeter.
JC951t thank you for sharing very good pic's from Japanese web, but unfortunately I don't speak any Japanese .
But everyone can see and understand from the pics what is the original and improved(modified) parts of the crossover.
Like I said in previous post, here we can exactly see an image example of my thought.This is exactly my taste of components for the crossovers.
The original caps. and coils look very ugly and also low performance for Hi-FI sound, all BP-bipolars( which after time will be very unstable due to dropping capacity, sometimes too much and destroy all frequency response of the complete loudspeaker, and all ferrite coils which is away of high end audio.
We ca clearly see that beautiful foil winded coils and they looks to me like gold plated foil perhaps, but even normal copper wire winding without core will be enough and much better than ferrite coils, just a more weight of copper, will be a little expensive but for the sound we are not willing to save some money, because this is a HI-FI hobby.
Also my suggestion to all who like to wind a air coils after winding is very important to put a solid layer of wire lack and plastic cable ties, three ties will be enough and than burn a little according to specification of the lack.This will tie copper windings and will be no mechanical resonance.
PS:
I never heard these speakers how they sounds, but I can modify that original crossover if someone can post TS parameters of all drivers woofer mid and tweeter.
My friend Vladimir Filevski ( audio scientist and inventor from Skopje -Macedonia) got an Clio measuring equipment and He made a lot of modifications to the original crossovers from some industrial speakers, and also a lot of own loudspeaker projects.
By the way he invent The flattest multimedia loudspeaker in the world which normally stays on a PC desk only plus/minus 2 dB's tolerance in audio spectrum!!! but I can modify that original crossover if someone can post TS parameters of all drivers woofer mid and tweeter.
You're most welcome Zaudio. Did you see all the mods ?
It's in 3 parts. Just scroll down & click onto part 2 followed
by part 3. What I really like about the NS1000 is the Dome Mid
driver. It has the most realistic sound that I've ever heard & this
is in comparison with my JM lab 1027 speakers which is a highly
touted speaker. As for the bass on the NS1000, I really think that
it should be placed in a bigger box with less stuffing. Just check
out the NS2000. Though with a carbon woofer, the box dimensions are actually bigger too.
It's in 3 parts. Just scroll down & click onto part 2 followed
by part 3. What I really like about the NS1000 is the Dome Mid
driver. It has the most realistic sound that I've ever heard & this
is in comparison with my JM lab 1027 speakers which is a highly
touted speaker. As for the bass on the NS1000, I really think that
it should be placed in a bigger box with less stuffing. Just check
out the NS2000. Though with a carbon woofer, the box dimensions are actually bigger too.