Hi Salas
this is not really the right thread to discuss this on but i have improved the kiss transport. Yes you are right changing the input caps and rectifiers made minimal difference.Adding a bybee thingeymajig near the input power supply plug but not onto the power supply board itself did significantly smooth out the top end and refine the sound.However encasing the power supply with copper or nickle plates significantly removed hash and treble distortion while at the same time improving clarity and tonal colours. I was unable to return to the set up with no cover to the power supply as it sounded relatively harsh and tonally washed out.
I see on ebay the higher models 450 500 etc are selling for very little money, the kiss is now IMHO probably one of the biggest bargains ever but it does need to be tamed and refined before it really starts to become a superstar. The clock would be the next place to go to and from my experience simply improving its on board power supply with improved and larger reservoir caps tends to equal what all the other numerous separately sold clock boards do alone. Ultimately if i can get the spdif signal off the IC i can directly connect it to the phono output plug using just a few high quality caps, or a valve output as per Lampizator.... cannot see any inductors in its path though. Lampizators method of using valves to get the digital signal ready for coaxial output does work and the sound produced is akin to having a power amplifier which is otl as opposed to one with an output transformer.
Luke
this is not really the right thread to discuss this on but i have improved the kiss transport. Yes you are right changing the input caps and rectifiers made minimal difference.Adding a bybee thingeymajig near the input power supply plug but not onto the power supply board itself did significantly smooth out the top end and refine the sound.However encasing the power supply with copper or nickle plates significantly removed hash and treble distortion while at the same time improving clarity and tonal colours. I was unable to return to the set up with no cover to the power supply as it sounded relatively harsh and tonally washed out.
I see on ebay the higher models 450 500 etc are selling for very little money, the kiss is now IMHO probably one of the biggest bargains ever but it does need to be tamed and refined before it really starts to become a superstar. The clock would be the next place to go to and from my experience simply improving its on board power supply with improved and larger reservoir caps tends to equal what all the other numerous separately sold clock boards do alone. Ultimately if i can get the spdif signal off the IC i can directly connect it to the phono output plug using just a few high quality caps, or a valve output as per Lampizator.... cannot see any inductors in its path though. Lampizators method of using valves to get the digital signal ready for coaxial output does work and the sound produced is akin to having a power amplifier which is otl as opposed to one with an output transformer.
Luke
Hi Hugomac
I have finished changing the crossover caps and internal wires and as suggested by audiojoy, removing the woolly insulation pads backing the subwoofer, results is very positive. Sound stage, speed and dynamic has improved a lot. Base is very clean. I did not remove the tweeter and mid pots.
This is what I am using
1. Internal wire: 100g (12 meter) 1mm 99.99% solid core silver in teflon tube.
you can buy from here, cost me A$122 including shipping
http://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/si_bare.html
I have a very accurate DM to measure capacitance and inductance.
All the capacitance are measured at 120Hz for woofer components and at 1KHz for tweeter and mid components.
2. Woofer cap: 94uF = 2 x UCC 47uF/500VDC + 1 x small valve auricap to make up the total capacitance = 94 uF
The UCC was purchased from Taiwan (in chinese)
http://ucccap.myweb.hinet.net/
If you connected/replaced all the component and measure the capacitance across the woofer's +ve and Gnd on the circuit board, it should read ~120uF (not 94uF).
3. Tweeter cap: 2.7uF = Obbligato copper cap 2.2uF + 0.47uF
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/?q=catalog/22/obbligatocoppercaps
Very smooth caps and worth trying, I tried auricap and UCC cap with no success.
4. Mid cap: 3.5uF = Multicap 3.0uF + Obbligato copper cap 0.47 uF
The multicap was taken from a preamp, replacing the auricap and UCC caps.
5. Mid cap: 21uF = 2x UCC 10uF/100VDC (20.5uF) + Obbligato copper cap 0.47uF
Here, the obbligato 6.8uF does not work very well.
6. Tin/silver solder.
7. Speaker pole: Eichmann Cablepod
http://www.eti-research.com.au/cablepod.htm
The resulting crossover board is huge.
Instead of UCC cap, you can try this from local, but I have no experience with the Jantzen they are selling
http://speakerbug.com.au/shop/
I like to try the russian caps, but must buy in large quantity so I just use whatever I have in my own stock.
One thing to remind you, make sure you have marked down the wiring in the pot, I have made a mistake there and swap #1 and #3 wires, result is horrible and spent a lot of time to figure it out..
Shan
I have finished changing the crossover caps and internal wires and as suggested by audiojoy, removing the woolly insulation pads backing the subwoofer, results is very positive. Sound stage, speed and dynamic has improved a lot. Base is very clean. I did not remove the tweeter and mid pots.
This is what I am using
1. Internal wire: 100g (12 meter) 1mm 99.99% solid core silver in teflon tube.
you can buy from here, cost me A$122 including shipping
http://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/si_bare.html
I have a very accurate DM to measure capacitance and inductance.
All the capacitance are measured at 120Hz for woofer components and at 1KHz for tweeter and mid components.
2. Woofer cap: 94uF = 2 x UCC 47uF/500VDC + 1 x small valve auricap to make up the total capacitance = 94 uF
The UCC was purchased from Taiwan (in chinese)
http://ucccap.myweb.hinet.net/
If you connected/replaced all the component and measure the capacitance across the woofer's +ve and Gnd on the circuit board, it should read ~120uF (not 94uF).
3. Tweeter cap: 2.7uF = Obbligato copper cap 2.2uF + 0.47uF
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/?q=catalog/22/obbligatocoppercaps
Very smooth caps and worth trying, I tried auricap and UCC cap with no success.
4. Mid cap: 3.5uF = Multicap 3.0uF + Obbligato copper cap 0.47 uF
The multicap was taken from a preamp, replacing the auricap and UCC caps.
5. Mid cap: 21uF = 2x UCC 10uF/100VDC (20.5uF) + Obbligato copper cap 0.47uF
Here, the obbligato 6.8uF does not work very well.
6. Tin/silver solder.
7. Speaker pole: Eichmann Cablepod
http://www.eti-research.com.au/cablepod.htm
The resulting crossover board is huge.
Instead of UCC cap, you can try this from local, but I have no experience with the Jantzen they are selling
http://speakerbug.com.au/shop/
I like to try the russian caps, but must buy in large quantity so I just use whatever I have in my own stock.
One thing to remind you, make sure you have marked down the wiring in the pot, I have made a mistake there and swap #1 and #3 wires, result is horrible and spent a lot of time to figure it out..
Shan
Here are some details in my crossover
R-speaker
L1= 4.945 mH @120Hz
L2= 301.2 uH @1KHz
L3= 2.289 mH @1KHz
L4=454.3 mH @1KHz
C1=94.3 uF @120Hz
C2=2.686 uF @1KHz
C3=21.13 uF @1KHz
C4=3.465uF @1KHz
L-speaker
L1= 4.945 mH @120Hz
L2= 291.2 uH @1KHz
L3= 2.275 mH @1KHz
L4=452.1 mH @1KHz
C1=93.9 uF @120Hz
C2=2.712 uF @1KHz
C3=21.19 uF @1KHz
C4=3.50uF @1KHz
teflon tube cut length (silver wire + 2cm) to fit the total under 12 meters. You don't have much left.
woofer: 70cm x 4
mid: 70cm x 4 + 40cm x 4
tweeter: 70cm x 4 + 30cm x 4
plus 2 lengths from speaker pole to crossover board.
Wish it can help for those who are planning to rewire your yamaha.
R-speaker
L1= 4.945 mH @120Hz
L2= 301.2 uH @1KHz
L3= 2.289 mH @1KHz
L4=454.3 mH @1KHz
C1=94.3 uF @120Hz
C2=2.686 uF @1KHz
C3=21.13 uF @1KHz
C4=3.465uF @1KHz
L-speaker
L1= 4.945 mH @120Hz
L2= 291.2 uH @1KHz
L3= 2.275 mH @1KHz
L4=452.1 mH @1KHz
C1=93.9 uF @120Hz
C2=2.712 uF @1KHz
C3=21.19 uF @1KHz
C4=3.50uF @1KHz
teflon tube cut length (silver wire + 2cm) to fit the total under 12 meters. You don't have much left.
woofer: 70cm x 4
mid: 70cm x 4 + 40cm x 4
tweeter: 70cm x 4 + 30cm x 4
plus 2 lengths from speaker pole to crossover board.
Wish it can help for those who are planning to rewire your yamaha.
Thanks Shanyau,
Just stripped back the speaker boxes to the original yellow timber underneath, looks awesome! Waiting on the tweeters from Germany that have had the Voice coils replaced cost $330 incl postage. Would you think the Ukraine PEPT Caps are better? They Polyurathane i think, are yours copper? So did you replace everything at once or cables & caps seperately so you could see which made the bigger difference. How much clearer are they? 3 times 5 times clearer?
I removed the padding behind the woofer when i reassembled the speakers but as i only have one tweeter i can't notice a huge difference. I also put that thin rubbery foam used for window sealing around opening of all speakers when i put them back in to make the cabinet air tight, bass is a bit better but with only one speaker working can't tell. Looking for a MX-1 Power Amp to replace my CA-2010 which has been blowing my tweeters when in Class B. MX-1 is ment to be Class A & Max 200 watts per channel. Also after a Pioneer PD-75 CD Player & a Valab DAC then i'll be really happy....
Just stripped back the speaker boxes to the original yellow timber underneath, looks awesome! Waiting on the tweeters from Germany that have had the Voice coils replaced cost $330 incl postage. Would you think the Ukraine PEPT Caps are better? They Polyurathane i think, are yours copper? So did you replace everything at once or cables & caps seperately so you could see which made the bigger difference. How much clearer are they? 3 times 5 times clearer?
I removed the padding behind the woofer when i reassembled the speakers but as i only have one tweeter i can't notice a huge difference. I also put that thin rubbery foam used for window sealing around opening of all speakers when i put them back in to make the cabinet air tight, bass is a bit better but with only one speaker working can't tell. Looking for a MX-1 Power Amp to replace my CA-2010 which has been blowing my tweeters when in Class B. MX-1 is ment to be Class A & Max 200 watts per channel. Also after a Pioneer PD-75 CD Player & a Valab DAC then i'll be really happy....
AudioJoy
Could you tell me the exact Van Den Hul silver cable you used for the Mid-range to the cross-over. I'm pricing AN-SPA at the moment from a Australian Distributor. What do you think of Mundorf Caps from Germany might get some for the woofers. Can't seem to find the DUCATI ENERGI Caps anywhere on E-Bay. What was the model number of the VALAB DAC you raved about is it a NOS-DAC? Is it worth getting a KISS transport over a PD-65? Where do get VALAB speaker cables? Do you have a model number, also what are good interconnectors? VALAB aswell. Shanyau has gone on about how great Audio-GD is have you heard there DAC or Amps? Still very keen on the PEPT Caps.
Cheers
Hugo
Could you tell me the exact Van Den Hul silver cable you used for the Mid-range to the cross-over. I'm pricing AN-SPA at the moment from a Australian Distributor. What do you think of Mundorf Caps from Germany might get some for the woofers. Can't seem to find the DUCATI ENERGI Caps anywhere on E-Bay. What was the model number of the VALAB DAC you raved about is it a NOS-DAC? Is it worth getting a KISS transport over a PD-65? Where do get VALAB speaker cables? Do you have a model number, also what are good interconnectors? VALAB aswell. Shanyau has gone on about how great Audio-GD is have you heard there DAC or Amps? Still very keen on the PEPT Caps.
Cheers
Hugo
Hugo
Have a look here
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
valab is a ebay seller from taiwan, their product looks good.
It is not fair to compare the valab using 8xTDA1543 with my audio-gd DAC-8 using 8xPCM1704 as they are selling at very different price (US@250 vs US$1260).
Audio Note silver cable is very good, I have their AN-VX IC, very smooth and very compatible with both solid state and tube amp or using as phono IC.
Wish you can settle with your decision soon.
Have a look here
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
valab is a ebay seller from taiwan, their product looks good.
It is not fair to compare the valab using 8xTDA1543 with my audio-gd DAC-8 using 8xPCM1704 as they are selling at very different price (US@250 vs US$1260).
Audio Note silver cable is very good, I have their AN-VX IC, very smooth and very compatible with both solid state and tube amp or using as phono IC.
Wish you can settle with your decision soon.
Salas i will check and see whats happening with my email system. Been so busy with work and rebuild of the house.... poor Hugo must be getting fedup waiting for his caps, But i will do it soon.
Have not played with the Yams for over a couple of months now because of the house rebuild just using earphones and an otl headphone amp.
Have many ideas I hope to incorporate into the YAMS including back firing supertweeter.
Have not played with the Yams for over a couple of months now because of the house rebuild just using earphones and an otl headphone amp.
Have many ideas I hope to incorporate into the YAMS including back firing supertweeter.
Hugo mac IMHO please forget about all the transports including the PD75 and Kiss that I have mentioned.
get the shigalone as per the thread on this site. not difficult to DIY at all, in fact very simple indeed. Best CD transport I have ever used, beat my all time favourite stable platter mechs easily!!!!!!as well as the KISS.
I am getting pricing for the caps postage shortly if you really want to try the ducatis i can send them out to you as well at the same time, but they are huge and heavy
The VALAB in my opinion is still the best DAC that I have ever heard. His price is going up and up. His speaker cables are superb value for money. Just go onto ebay and type 'valab' but as aworldwide choice and you will see all his products. His cables preamp and DACS are the stars IMO.
Luke
get the shigalone as per the thread on this site. not difficult to DIY at all, in fact very simple indeed. Best CD transport I have ever used, beat my all time favourite stable platter mechs easily!!!!!!as well as the KISS.
I am getting pricing for the caps postage shortly if you really want to try the ducatis i can send them out to you as well at the same time, but they are huge and heavy
The VALAB in my opinion is still the best DAC that I have ever heard. His price is going up and up. His speaker cables are superb value for money. Just go onto ebay and type 'valab' but as aworldwide choice and you will see all his products. His cables preamp and DACS are the stars IMO.
Luke
Audiojoy
OK i'll look into the shigalone sounds interesting. Been looking at Shanyau's http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html Cap review the Duelund CAST Copper Capacitor - 100VDC are $700 US for 2 3.5uF for the Mids & the Mundorf M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold 1200VDC are $100 each. WOW is it worth it? Can your PEPT's be better?
So is any VALAB DAC good? I've seen the prices go from $20 or less to $200. Does yours have No Oversampling. Could you sit the Ducati's in the speaker cabinet tied down as they wouldn't fit on the x-overs. It would be great if you could send the PEPT's for Mid & Tweeter & Ducati for Woofer.
Cheers
hugo
OK i'll look into the shigalone sounds interesting. Been looking at Shanyau's http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html Cap review the Duelund CAST Copper Capacitor - 100VDC are $700 US for 2 3.5uF for the Mids & the Mundorf M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold 1200VDC are $100 each. WOW is it worth it? Can your PEPT's be better?
So is any VALAB DAC good? I've seen the prices go from $20 or less to $200. Does yours have No Oversampling. Could you sit the Ducati's in the speaker cabinet tied down as they wouldn't fit on the x-overs. It would be great if you could send the PEPT's for Mid & Tweeter & Ducati for Woofer.
Cheers
hugo
hugomac
the ducatis are huge they would not fit into the speaker. I personally believe the military caps would be as good if not even better than the Mundorfs as I have worked with numerous so called expensive caps in the past, see my Jadis DA7 thread.
The VALAB version with the usb input is the one to go for. The latest with the most accurate clock even i have not as yet heard. Avoid the very first version as these sounded slightly 'dull' in comparison.
the ducatis are huge they would not fit into the speaker. I personally believe the military caps would be as good if not even better than the Mundorfs as I have worked with numerous so called expensive caps in the past, see my Jadis DA7 thread.
The VALAB version with the usb input is the one to go for. The latest with the most accurate clock even i have not as yet heard. Avoid the very first version as these sounded slightly 'dull' in comparison.
Hello, there.
I recently changed X/O caps to standard SCR MKP:s and got a new pair of speakers. Then I sprayed the levelpots and received another pair of new speakers! Really amazing how everything suddenly clicks into position. Rather as expected, though.
From experience, the next step will be going active, as the price difference to extemely expensive passive components and "audiophile" amps will be very small.
Arcam Alpha 9SE CD, Thule Audio IA 50, Heybrook TT2/Alphason HR100S-MCS and Shure V15 mk5.
Chers
I recently changed X/O caps to standard SCR MKP:s and got a new pair of speakers. Then I sprayed the levelpots and received another pair of new speakers! Really amazing how everything suddenly clicks into position. Rather as expected, though.
From experience, the next step will be going active, as the price difference to extemely expensive passive components and "audiophile" amps will be very small.
Arcam Alpha 9SE CD, Thule Audio IA 50, Heybrook TT2/Alphason HR100S-MCS and Shure V15 mk5.
Chers
Beachmountain,
Really.. I have got some PEFT Caps from Audiojoy but have yet to put them in. I have internally rewired one speaker to Silver 1.5mm wire which is a bit too big. Didn't notice a big difference probably because have just bought a Yamaha B-2 Amp & can't believe how good that is. So re-Capping is a substantial difference? yes? How did you "spray" the level pots? What with? What is SCR MKP Caps?
Hugomac
Really.. I have got some PEFT Caps from Audiojoy but have yet to put them in. I have internally rewired one speaker to Silver 1.5mm wire which is a bit too big. Didn't notice a big difference probably because have just bought a Yamaha B-2 Amp & can't believe how good that is. So re-Capping is a substantial difference? yes? How did you "spray" the level pots? What with? What is SCR MKP Caps?
Hugomac
Hello.
I sprayed the inside of the pots liberally with Kontakt 60, a standard isopropanol contact cleaner spray. Caig Deoxit or Philips or whatever good competitor does the same.
Leaves no residue, works like a charm for all kinds of oxidised pots and connectors.
As long as they´re not totally by west, of course.
MKP is a standard polypropylene capacitor-type, SCR is the manufacturer, and they are readily available here in Sweden.
I happened to have a bunch in the drawer, and having used them before I knew what I was getting into.
There are several other brands available, and I will not get into discussion on different brands "sounding" different from eachother. I do know that polypropylene and polystyrene caps have different timbres.
IMHO it doesn´t really matter which one you upgrade to, since both are hugely superior to dry old electrolytics anyway.
Cheers/Conny
I sprayed the inside of the pots liberally with Kontakt 60, a standard isopropanol contact cleaner spray. Caig Deoxit or Philips or whatever good competitor does the same.
Leaves no residue, works like a charm for all kinds of oxidised pots and connectors.
As long as they´re not totally by west, of course
.MKP is a standard polypropylene capacitor-type, SCR is the manufacturer, and they are readily available here in Sweden.
I happened to have a bunch in the drawer, and having used them before I knew what I was getting into.
There are several other brands available, and I will not get into discussion on different brands "sounding" different from eachother. I do know that polypropylene and polystyrene caps have different timbres.
IMHO it doesn´t really matter which one you upgrade to, since both are hugely superior to dry old electrolytics anyway.
Cheers/Conny
I totally agree with Beachmountain about Kontakt 60 - I have used it for many years including on NS-1000 crossover pots and have 100% confidence in it.
Just to clear up one thing though - it does leave a residue, as it also contains a proportion of lubricant , which is why it's good on pots. Theoretically Kontakt 60 is part of a 3-can system. where for some applications you use Kontakt 60 first , then after 10 minutes or so you spray Kontakt WL spraywash to remove the residue from the Kontakt 60 , and then you lubricate with Kontakt 61. Personally I just leave the Kontakt 60 in there if it's a pot. Be advised you only need a VERY SMALL amount - which holds true for all good contact sprays. Cramolin is also fantastic ( this was De-oxit in the USA until a lot of politics crept in...)
You won't need to do anything with the metal covers on the pots , there is a small aperture or slot you can spray through . although as I don't own any NS-1000's any more I can't quite remember where it is!
Cheers,
Gwyn
Just to clear up one thing though - it does leave a residue, as it also contains a proportion of lubricant , which is why it's good on pots. Theoretically Kontakt 60 is part of a 3-can system. where for some applications you use Kontakt 60 first , then after 10 minutes or so you spray Kontakt WL spraywash to remove the residue from the Kontakt 60 , and then you lubricate with Kontakt 61. Personally I just leave the Kontakt 60 in there if it's a pot. Be advised you only need a VERY SMALL amount - which holds true for all good contact sprays. Cramolin is also fantastic ( this was De-oxit in the USA until a lot of politics crept in...)
You won't need to do anything with the metal covers on the pots , there is a small aperture or slot you can spray through . although as I don't own any NS-1000's any more I can't quite remember where it is!
Cheers,
Gwyn
Hello, Hugomac.
Sound: more transparent, highend restored, and the mixes sounded more "correct", whether Folk, Rock, Classic, Metal, Jazz. That is more than a tendency. Like if the crossoverpoints were restored, which is in fact more likely than not.
No burn-in necessary. If the difference is not immediate, something is wrong somewhere else in the chain.
Didn´t replace the wiring, just cut the tinned part and resoldered.
BTW: this goes for any good old speaker where a change of caps is due. PLS note that most old electrolytics have tolerance of about +/-35%, where SCR MKP:s have +/-5%. Also account for ageing drive units, cabling, etc, AND in the case of our beloved NS1000: the profound lack of spares. This is why, to me, experienced live and studio sound engineer, more expensive parts are simply not worth the cost.
In the pro sound world it´s known that when Yamaha does correct, it IS, and when wrong, it IS!
NS1000 is correct. They stand up to even extremely expensive modern studio monitors, and definitely leave most "hifi"-speakers in the wake.
Sincerely/Conny
Sound: more transparent, highend restored, and the mixes sounded more "correct", whether Folk, Rock, Classic, Metal, Jazz. That is more than a tendency. Like if the crossoverpoints were restored, which is in fact more likely than not
.No burn-in necessary. If the difference is not immediate, something is wrong somewhere else in the chain.
Didn´t replace the wiring, just cut the tinned part and resoldered.
BTW: this goes for any good old speaker where a change of caps is due. PLS note that most old electrolytics have tolerance of about +/-35%, where SCR MKP:s have +/-5%. Also account for ageing drive units, cabling, etc, AND in the case of our beloved NS1000: the profound lack of spares. This is why, to me, experienced live and studio sound engineer, more expensive parts are simply not worth the cost.
In the pro sound world it´s known that when Yamaha does correct, it IS, and when wrong, it IS!
NS1000 is correct. They stand up to even extremely expensive modern studio monitors, and definitely leave most "hifi"-speakers in the wake.
Sincerely/Conny
Hello, Gwyn.
I stand corrected in the use of Kontakt 60!
The description of the spraying point is, well, to the point.
Just did not have the other Kontakts in-house at the moment.
Your way is by the book. I´m a live sound engineer, and sometimes have to do what is necessary to keep the show on stage.
Thank you.
Hugomac: Begin with lifting the knobs from the pots at 90 degree angle, use fingerforce, then unscrew the 4 screws of each pot. Lift each pot CAREFULLY out of the cabinet. Spray as described by Studiochap.
Resolder as necessary. Use the OldTime-solder.
Reassemble. Enjoy your new speakers.
Then recap the crossover and enjoy an even newer pair of speakers!
PLS redo one at a a time if you are hesitant about the result.
Best Rgds/Conny
I stand corrected in the use of Kontakt 60!
The description of the spraying point is, well, to the point
.Just did not have the other Kontakts in-house at the moment.
Your way is by the book. I´m a live sound engineer, and sometimes have to do what is necessary to keep the show on stage
.Thank you.
Hugomac: Begin with lifting the knobs from the pots at 90 degree angle, use fingerforce, then unscrew the 4 screws of each pot. Lift each pot CAREFULLY out of the cabinet. Spray as described by Studiochap.
Resolder as necessary. Use the OldTime-solder.
Reassemble. Enjoy your new speakers.
Then recap the crossover and enjoy an even newer pair of speakers!
PLS redo one at a a time if you are hesitant about the result.
Best Rgds/Conny