Very helpful and thanks.Hi Jonathan,
I am using the Najda board as replacement of my super tweaked DCX 2496. SQ of Najda in my system outperformed the DCX easily. I had no time to make a blind test between SPDIF and WaveIO - USB inputs with Najda. My first impression was that specially the highs sounded more detailed! Najda is very easy to configure, after starting a new setup with Najda control. Most features are self- explanatory. Excuse my sometimes unusual english, it's not my mother language!
Regards
Sigi
Your English is excellent. Better than some English people!
Jonathan
If you are referring to this new card then it's still for dual channel playback... quite different from actual WaveIO board but, hopefully, an improved alternative. Anyway, the multichannel idea is already on my ToDo list waiting to be implemented...
Cheers,
L
Questions for Lucian or anyone else that can answer.
I have a WaveIO installed in my PCM1704K NOS DAC (with multiple PS, including dedicated for WaveIO). It has sounded and worked great since I got it in August 2012. That is about when I stopped following this thread. Now I have reviewed the last 40 pages and see that there has been some sort of firmware update for the board, and also that there was a group buy for a daughter board of some type for the original WaveIO (like I have).
Can someone explain, in as plain terms as possible:
1) What is the daughter board and where does it attach?
2) What aspects of the performance does it change?
3) Do current WaveIO boards ship with the daughter board or have the changes just been incorporated onto the board itself?
4) Is the a group buy still going on or can I order the daughter board direct from Luck-it?
5) Do any connections between the WaveIO and my DAC need to change in order for me to install the daughter card?
6) I saw that Lucian said her would modify/update boards if they were sent back, but that would seem a lot of trouble and I would not mind just buying a current WaveIO--if it will just connect in exactly the same way as my old board (my friend John Swenson did the original install and I'd rather not have to take my DAC back to his place for installation of updated WaveIO).
7) How does the current WaveIO differ from the entirely new board that Lucian is designing (and soon entering production based on PCB CAD file he posted)?
8) And about the new board--what will it do? Will it be pin compatible with the old board? (JS made a whole fancy circuit which uses the sample rate pins to make a front panel LED change color for each rate--I like that!)
9) Is Lucian offering WaveIO boards with Crystek clocks? I'd pay the extra for that!
Thanks in advance for detailed answers to all of my above questions.
Regards,
Alex C.
I have a WaveIO installed in my PCM1704K NOS DAC (with multiple PS, including dedicated for WaveIO). It has sounded and worked great since I got it in August 2012. That is about when I stopped following this thread. Now I have reviewed the last 40 pages and see that there has been some sort of firmware update for the board, and also that there was a group buy for a daughter board of some type for the original WaveIO (like I have).
Can someone explain, in as plain terms as possible:
1) What is the daughter board and where does it attach?
2) What aspects of the performance does it change?
3) Do current WaveIO boards ship with the daughter board or have the changes just been incorporated onto the board itself?
4) Is the a group buy still going on or can I order the daughter board direct from Luck-it?
5) Do any connections between the WaveIO and my DAC need to change in order for me to install the daughter card?
6) I saw that Lucian said her would modify/update boards if they were sent back, but that would seem a lot of trouble and I would not mind just buying a current WaveIO--if it will just connect in exactly the same way as my old board (my friend John Swenson did the original install and I'd rather not have to take my DAC back to his place for installation of updated WaveIO).
7) How does the current WaveIO differ from the entirely new board that Lucian is designing (and soon entering production based on PCB CAD file he posted)?
8) And about the new board--what will it do? Will it be pin compatible with the old board? (JS made a whole fancy circuit which uses the sample rate pins to make a front panel LED change color for each rate--I like that!)
9) Is Lucian offering WaveIO boards with Crystek clocks? I'd pay the extra for that!
Thanks in advance for detailed answers to all of my above questions.
Regards,
Alex C.
no I dont mean this one, i've seen the pics, but I heard stirrings of you working towards a multichannel card and ive gotta say, I think the layout for the upcoming version is quite nice, so multichannel is interesting (but 2 channel isnt, not for me).
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Arduino LCD display for WaveIO
Came across this and thought others might be interested, in case they have not seen it: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-38.html#post3512488
Came across this and thought others might be interested, in case they have not seen it: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-38.html#post3512488
@ Alex: Please see my answers below:
).
... Well, both are USB-to-I2S interfaces and both uses XMOS processors. I guess that's ending here. I will speak about the new card after is ready. For the moment my only concern is to make it work (literally).
I hope it helps,
Lucian
It was a small board designed only to do the reclocking job of I2S signals. Now, after many changes, is quite more than that. As for attaching it to main board, at this moment I was thinking to a Flex/rigid PCB bundle solution still I'm not at the finish line. Anyway, due to the job's complexity side, I'll personally make the changes to each WaveIO since NDK oscillators have to be removed and replaced with other ones (also NDKs), located on the DB itself.
Many I hope! First of all the I2S signals will be reclocked. Second, there will be full isolation from USB Bus. Third, there are a lot of PSU improvements that I want to implement. Fourth, the PCB itself will suffer quite a few changes: less noisy, with impedance controlled tracks and better layout. All comes like a testing pack for me as many of them wasn't implemented before in any of my previously designs I made.
DB will be shipped with WaveIO as a single product. Due to the fact that DB will have some pads that have to be soldered on the WaveIO for the best connection possible (giving the circumstances), you will not be able to detach it (unless you will use force
). GB is active and when the DB is done the discount will be directly proportional with the number of boards requested. All the members in the GB will be noticed about price, availability and improvements.
Mot likely yes as the DB will provide additional stages between the actual WaveIO board and your DAC chip.
I will not force anyone to send his own WaveIO card back here to be changed like I don't force anyone to take the DB. As I said earlier, everyone in GB has the free choice to step aside... whatever the reasons will be. And, if you'll want to chose the new card then I don't have anything against it!
"entirely new board"
... Well, both are USB-to-I2S interfaces and both uses XMOS processors. I guess that's ending here. I will speak about the new card after is ready. For the moment my only concern is to make it work (literally). Sounds quite nice what JS made! I would like to see that so if you have a link please share it with us. The new card is doing exactly what the actual WaveIO does: getting I2S data signals from USB streams. Though, there are quite a lot of differences between the two products: most of them are addressing the power and signals integrity sections. Not to mention that is highly optimized when it comes to price/performance ratio for most of the parts used there. As for dimensions, the new one is different: 56.4mm x 38.9 mm.
For actual WaveIO, the DB will allow you to use external clocking. I didn't took into account the chance to place Crystek footprints on the card due to part's large dimensions but I'll see what I can do about it.
I hope it helps,
Lucian
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Hmm... I'm not such a S/PDIF fan BTW and that's the main reason for which it wasn't take into account in this new board. Yes, the new WaveIO card will not have SPDIF output in any way: wasn't mean to be, sorry! Anyway, there is at least one way to get the signal out of it (by a firmware change) still the hardware support is nonexistent. DB support for S/PDIF is in debate now, please let me think about it
Kind regards,
L
Kind regards,
L
Thanks. I would imagine that I am not alone! Most commercial DACs like my Chord DAC 64 MkII do not have I2S. It is only DIY really like TP Buffalo etc. Whilst of course many of your customers are doing DIY, I am sure many are not and are at the mercy of the vendor - there being no I2S interconnect standard apart from the likes of PS Audio.Hmm... I'm not such a S/PDIF fan BTW and that's the main reason for which it wasn't take into account in this new board. Yes, the new WaveIO card will not have SPDIF output in any way: wasn't mean to be, sorry! Anyway, there is at least one way to get the signal out of it (by a firmware change) still the hardware support is nonexistent. DB support for S/PDIF is in debate now, please let me think about it
Kind regards,
L
Perhaps others requiring S/PDIF on the DB would like to say so now!
I am interested in the DB if it provides USB isolation definitely, even though I accept that I cannot use the new WaveIO PCB with S/PDIF.
Cheers
Jonathan
LCD display for waveIO
in case anyone would be interested, specially after the firmware upgrade, to have a LCD indicating the status information, you might want to check this
LCD for WaveIO project with Arduino
in case anyone would be interested, specially after the firmware upgrade, to have a LCD indicating the status information, you might want to check this
LCD for WaveIO project with Arduino
Thank Doede for this improvement. I already seen it on your thread and on your website and I've just ordered parts (about 25€ for all).
It's great for the money. Thank you again. I've not purchased your very interesting 1794NOS dac yet, but I'm arriving.....
Ah, I do not know what to say qusp.. rather than be quiet and make the product
You can clearly see what are the results of sourcing infos to the public too earlier... It is a good lesson for me: just work and keep my mouth closed!Noted+1 for multichannel
Ahem, I received a proper written email yesterday from a WaveIO owner about leaving SPDIF aside in the DB, bringing some heavy arguments that makes me rethink my position on that matter. I still don't love SPDIF though but I do love to see/hear that WaveIO's owners that are are using SPDIF to take the most of it. So, SPDIF will be included in the DB as well. It is decided! (I should thank to Nicola for that!)
You can see that until yesterday SPDIF was excluded from DB and now is back again in the design. It's quite confusing for me thus I cannot tell you exactly when it will be ready, I'm really sorry about that!Hi Lucian, excellent comprehensive reply to Superdad
Have you any idea about DB tentative release date at this time?
Cheers,
L
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+1 for Spdif . Maybe i2s is still better, planning to test it, but Spdif is already excellent to turn a cd player into a transport , a good way to start with digital diy
Lucian:
Sounds like the daughter board is growing to be larger than the WaveIO board itself!
So someone has convinced you to ad S/PDIF to it? I am sure you know that to generate a really good S/PDIF signal takes some care. There are a few ways to go.
S/PDIF does not interest me (at least for an internal USB>I2S board), so I just hope that whatever additional circuitry you include does not add noise or jitter to the I2S. Maybe you make it so that the S/PDIF can be turned off?
By the way, with the update/daughter board version, will you now have isolators between the XMOS and the clocks? The lack of them was John Swenson's only criticism of the WaveIO when he installed it for me. I also bought the Edel board from ABC PCB in Switzerland, and they did a good job with isolation (though the board has other issues--especially at high speed; and it also would not work in my DAC for other reasons).
I can't believe I forgot to ask this question earlier:
Will you be updating the firmware of the present WaveIO/DB to support 352.8/384kHz. The XMOS will support it and I am told that only a few lines of code need to be changed. I use Audirvana Plus with custom iZotope filter settings to upsample to 176.4/192kHz, and would love to go even higher.
While my PCM1704 DAC has no filters, most all those with S-D chip DACs are stuck with the compromised choices of built-in up/oversampling filters. But the higher rates you can feed such DACs, the more steps of the built-in filters you eliminate, and for most S-D chips, their own filters are essentially off when you feed 352.8/384kHz. I am sure that you and everyone here know all this.
You asked for a pic of the prototype that the WaveIO went into (or at least you asked about the color-coded LED for sample rate; it's handled on the same small board as the PS for the WaveIO; I could get circuit details if someone really wanted, but since JS used a single RGB LED to make the colors--so only one spot of the opaque faceplate changes color--it really was a pain-in-the-neck circuit). Anyway, a photo is below.
Best regards,
ALEX
Sounds like the daughter board is growing to be larger than the WaveIO board itself!
So someone has convinced you to ad S/PDIF to it? I am sure you know that to generate a really good S/PDIF signal takes some care. There are a few ways to go.
S/PDIF does not interest me (at least for an internal USB>I2S board), so I just hope that whatever additional circuitry you include does not add noise or jitter to the I2S. Maybe you make it so that the S/PDIF can be turned off?
By the way, with the update/daughter board version, will you now have isolators between the XMOS and the clocks? The lack of them was John Swenson's only criticism of the WaveIO when he installed it for me. I also bought the Edel board from ABC PCB in Switzerland, and they did a good job with isolation (though the board has other issues--especially at high speed; and it also would not work in my DAC for other reasons).
I can't believe I forgot to ask this question earlier:
Will you be updating the firmware of the present WaveIO/DB to support 352.8/384kHz. The XMOS will support it and I am told that only a few lines of code need to be changed. I use Audirvana Plus with custom iZotope filter settings to upsample to 176.4/192kHz, and would love to go even higher.
While my PCM1704 DAC has no filters, most all those with S-D chip DACs are stuck with the compromised choices of built-in up/oversampling filters. But the higher rates you can feed such DACs, the more steps of the built-in filters you eliminate, and for most S-D chips, their own filters are essentially off when you feed 352.8/384kHz. I am sure that you and everyone here know all this.
You asked for a pic of the prototype that the WaveIO went into (or at least you asked about the color-coded LED for sample rate; it's handled on the same small board as the PS for the WaveIO; I could get circuit details if someone really wanted, but since JS used a single RGB LED to make the colors--so only one spot of the opaque faceplate changes color--it really was a pain-in-the-neck circuit). Anyway, a photo is below.
Best regards,
ALEX
Attachments
Hi Lucian
As you know I have your WaveIO board. Please explain me few things:
1. Are you preparing two boards separately - new WaveIO board AND daughter board?
2. Is daughter board useful for BOTH old and new version of WaveIO? Or new wersion doesnt need that DB?
3. If I buy daughter board for old version do I need to send my WaveIO to you for new firmware and for "connecting" 2 boards together?
4. What about SPDiF output in such case - I would have it on both boards or what? In case of using SPDiF from daughter board - is that type of connection gather benefits from daughter board to converter?
5. I sent my WaveIO as "tester" to few of my friends and they are interested in your product. Anyways some say it would be very nice to make pads for bigger oscillators like Crystek - I also saw someone mentioned it here. Can you please check such possibility? Maybe its better to make it absolutely perfect for everyone?
Im waiting for your response
Regards
Jakub
As you know I have your WaveIO board. Please explain me few things:
1. Are you preparing two boards separately - new WaveIO board AND daughter board?
2. Is daughter board useful for BOTH old and new version of WaveIO? Or new wersion doesnt need that DB?
3. If I buy daughter board for old version do I need to send my WaveIO to you for new firmware and for "connecting" 2 boards together?
4. What about SPDiF output in such case - I would have it on both boards or what? In case of using SPDiF from daughter board - is that type of connection gather benefits from daughter board to converter?
5. I sent my WaveIO as "tester" to few of my friends and they are interested in your product. Anyways some say it would be very nice to make pads for bigger oscillators like Crystek - I also saw someone mentioned it here. Can you please check such possibility? Maybe its better to make it absolutely perfect for everyone?
Im waiting for your response
Regards
Jakub
Hi Lucian, no problem for me, I'm still enjoying the "bare" WaveIO a lot.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, cause the tests I made with isolated I2S on the board were not successful for me and I'm still runnning the board from the non-isolated I2S.
I join the no-spdif-on-db party, it's useless for me, but it's your product and you decide. I trust you.
Cheers.