Hi Ralf!
I just took a dive into the problem.
One of the challanges in this project were to keep the -3db highend roll off over 100 Hz, due to the input capacitance of the fets. To keep this R122 and R123 needs to be as low as 39K, so don´t raise their value, I have done a lot of experiments on this, and not keeping this standard is very audible in the negatieve sence.
So to get higher gain, lower the input resistors R120 and R121 to 6.8K or 5.6K, the only prise paid is the lower input resistance, singleended 4.7K or 3.3K. But be shure that your signalsources is capable of driving these loads, most Solid State equipment should be able to do just ok.
Regards
I just took a dive into the problem.
One of the challanges in this project were to keep the -3db highend roll off over 100 Hz, due to the input capacitance of the fets. To keep this R122 and R123 needs to be as low as 39K, so don´t raise their value, I have done a lot of experiments on this, and not keeping this standard is very audible in the negatieve sence.
So to get higher gain, lower the input resistors R120 and R121 to 6.8K or 5.6K, the only prise paid is the lower input resistance, singleended 4.7K or 3.3K. But be shure that your signalsources is capable of driving these loads, most Solid State equipment should be able to do just ok.
Regards
xsoz
Hi Henrik,
Now it's a real pleasure to listen. Yes, it lacks some bass, but my Proteus won't play much below 50Hz anyway.
With the original SOZ it didn't matter if you were listening to mp3's or bad recordings, everything sounded great. With the xsoz those recordings sounds terrible. It's so revealing! It deliver no magic FX like the soz, only the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, And that might hurt sometimes. But with quality classical music, recorded with few mics you get the whole concert hall in your living room! The 3D-imaging is amazing.
The coldness has disappeared, or as you said, I've been used to the sound. Maybe it's the same feeling when you go from cheap full range speakers to good stand mounted speakers. First you are disappointed about the lack of bass. A week later when you hear the true quality, you would never go back.
A pair of Black Gates after the regulation would be nice, but they cost a fortune. I rather go for less expensive standard gear. Do you use 63V or 100V caps? 63V is dangerously close to 60V
A X-output sounds nice, but I think I need a whole new cd. My Rega have a increasing TOC-reading problem. A cd pro2 + TDA1543 dac would suit me perfect. I could try different output stages. Passive, X, D1, or a x:ed D1 =) But with a passive I/V you get a system with only two gain stages in signal path, that sounds tempting.
A month from now I'll be studying basic and analogue electronics. Yippie
Yours sincerely,
Vit aus Schweden
Hi Henrik,
Now it's a real pleasure to listen. Yes, it lacks some bass, but my Proteus won't play much below 50Hz anyway.
With the original SOZ it didn't matter if you were listening to mp3's or bad recordings, everything sounded great. With the xsoz those recordings sounds terrible. It's so revealing! It deliver no magic FX like the soz, only the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, And that might hurt sometimes. But with quality classical music, recorded with few mics you get the whole concert hall in your living room! The 3D-imaging is amazing.
The coldness has disappeared, or as you said, I've been used to the sound. Maybe it's the same feeling when you go from cheap full range speakers to good stand mounted speakers. First you are disappointed about the lack of bass. A week later when you hear the true quality, you would never go back.
A pair of Black Gates after the regulation would be nice, but they cost a fortune. I rather go for less expensive standard gear. Do you use 63V or 100V caps? 63V is dangerously close to 60V
A X-output sounds nice, but I think I need a whole new cd. My Rega have a increasing TOC-reading problem. A cd pro2 + TDA1543 dac would suit me perfect. I could try different output stages. Passive, X, D1, or a x:ed D1 =) But with a passive I/V you get a system with only two gain stages in signal path, that sounds tempting.
A month from now I'll be studying basic and analogue electronics. Yippie
Yours sincerely,
Vit aus Schweden
Hi Vit!
Once again congratulation!!!
I think sometimes, when you hear some bass which isn´t detailed or grainy, you feel it´s a kind of deeper, but it isn´t. On my system I have plenty of verry deeeep bass, without the feeling of a blerred bass which my former soz had, althougt it sounded good. I think the XSOZ is very hard to beat when it comes to vocals and acoustic instruments, but even hard rock sounds very nice.
When I was talking (we e-mailed yesterday) about Black Gates after regulation, I ment not for the xbosoz but actualy my xsoz, wich is powered by a single rail regulated PSU with a virtual groud to bias the fets. I am using two Blackgates at 4700uF 50v, one for each channel.
Happy listening.
"A month from now I'll be studying basic and analogue electronics. Yippie " Sounds great!
Regards
Once again congratulation!!!
I think sometimes, when you hear some bass which isn´t detailed or grainy, you feel it´s a kind of deeper, but it isn´t. On my system I have plenty of verry deeeep bass, without the feeling of a blerred bass which my former soz had, althougt it sounded good. I think the XSOZ is very hard to beat when it comes to vocals and acoustic instruments, but even hard rock sounds very nice.
When I was talking (we e-mailed yesterday) about Black Gates after regulation, I ment not for the xbosoz but actualy my xsoz, wich is powered by a single rail regulated PSU with a virtual groud to bias the fets. I am using two Blackgates at 4700uF 50v, one for each channel.
Happy listening.
"A month from now I'll be studying basic and analogue electronics. Yippie " Sounds great!
Regards
Hi Ralf!
Long time no see!
Yes - I realised you were lost and far away from the true pathway to heaven!!
But anyway I hope you enjoy your JLH.
After regulation is the best place to put those Black Gates, and if you can afford, use them even before. They do make a difference.
I have ben thinking of the problem about the gain in soz and xsoz as we have discussed before, i have done som sims, and i think when you are above say 10w you need an inputstage with IRF610.
Regards from heaven!
Long time no see!
Yes - I realised you were lost and far away from the true pathway to heaven!!
But anyway I hope you enjoy your JLH.
After regulation is the best place to put those Black Gates, and if you can afford, use them even before. They do make a difference.
I have ben thinking of the problem about the gain in soz and xsoz as we have discussed before, i have done som sims, and i think when you are above say 10w you need an inputstage with IRF610.
Regards from heaven!
nice to read you...
next week a guy comes to me who uses a hiraga monster with battery supply.
i think i can use one for my JLH. If the battery psu sounds rellay better i will go for that.
i think (but dont know) that battery option is better than every standard PSU even with Black Gates...Any way i bought some Black gates today to test....
Ah, i forgot to say that i meanwhile tested Caddock MK32, dale RN60, Audionotes and next time the horrible expensive Vishay 102k resistors.
All of the tested ones- much more better than standard resistors.
(i remeber you build your xamps with audio notes)
Greets to the pass-friends
next week a guy comes to me who uses a hiraga monster with battery supply.
i think i can use one for my JLH. If the battery psu sounds rellay better i will go for that.
i think (but dont know) that battery option is better than every standard PSU even with Black Gates...Any way i bought some Black gates today to test....
Ah, i forgot to say that i meanwhile tested Caddock MK32, dale RN60, Audionotes and next time the horrible expensive Vishay 102k resistors.
All of the tested ones- much more better than standard resistors.
(i remeber you build your xamps with audio notes)
Greets to the pass-friends
Hi ralf
Who said any thing about standard PSU?
But ain´t batteries big trouble in class A at several amperes?
You remembered correct, I am using audinote resistors, allthough I haven´t tested them myself pice by pice, you know, with all the improvements i made with better parts in one turn, it just came out better than the first one, made with crappy parts. It was hard for me to recognise which part made what? But thanks for your point of view on resistors, i believe they sound better than the useually once.
I will follow you and the batteries at the JHL forum, if you post.
Best regards from a Pass-friend of yours.
Who said any thing about standard PSU?
But ain´t batteries big trouble in class A at several amperes?
You remembered correct, I am using audinote resistors, allthough I haven´t tested them myself pice by pice, you know, with all the improvements i made with better parts in one turn, it just came out better than the first one, made with crappy parts. It was hard for me to recognise which part made what? But thanks for your point of view on resistors, i believe they sound better than the useually once.
I will follow you and the batteries at the JHL forum, if you post.
Best regards from a Pass-friend of yours.
I used them in my recent monoblocks and they sound fine. I didn't notice any obvious signature about them like with othe rresistors, but still didn't really compare them against other brands. I have a feeling they may sound similar to Caddocks, but smoother.
Vishays S102, are very soft sounding, too soft for my taste. Rikens, OTOH are a bit bright and a bit harsh maybe, but overall quite good, but not totally neutral. Caddocks when used in feedback loop, produce better soundstage and less obvious signature. I will try compare those tantalums soon, and they might be my future choice.
Vishays S102, are very soft sounding, too soft for my taste. Rikens, OTOH are a bit bright and a bit harsh maybe, but overall quite good, but not totally neutral. Caddocks when used in feedback loop, produce better soundstage and less obvious signature. I will try compare those tantalums soon, and they might be my future choice.
I use Vishay S102 nude resistors from texascomponents.com They cost less than Percy audio. And you can get them in .005% if you need to. But it cost more for those. I use 1% in SOZ/XSOZ. Since ther are so few resistors it's not a big expense. I do not find them soft. I found out about the nudes. Because they are used in my AHT phono stage. One of the best phono stages ever made. I have used tantalum too. And those are good. Not as neutral. A bit of a more full sound. Not as clear in the highs. I could live with either. In the SOZ circuit with so few parts you can here the difference in parts. In other more complex circuits it can be hard to tell what is doing what. Unless the change makes it a lot less musical.
There is a forum member who sells S102 at $2 and recently I think they went up to $3 per piece (even 200k which normally sell at more than $25).
I compared those resistors in a feedback loop of a gainclone and in a series input connection. I also tried them in Aleph X feedback loop. Whenever I put them in, they substantially softened trebles, comparing with other exotic resistors. I didn't really like the effect.
I read comments that nude Vishays are better sounding as less damping is applied (because of no case).
I compared those resistors in a feedback loop of a gainclone and in a series input connection. I also tried them in Aleph X feedback loop. Whenever I put them in, they substantially softened trebles, comparing with other exotic resistors. I didn't really like the effect.
I read comments that nude Vishays are better sounding as less damping is applied (because of no case).
Battery / Vishays102k
hi Daniel, Hi Henrick
in the last year i made some experiences with Hiraga le monstre and JLH.
both sound better the better the components you use , are.
In comparison to X-soz/bosoz , which are not so sensitive about the used components.
The question, which resistor sound best is hard to answer. i think it depends on the amp you use and the other components like Cd Player, cables etc.
Fact is, that if you want to build somewhat very good sounding you have to use high quality parts.
Battery PSU:
A good friend of mine builded the hiraga amp with conventional psu and with battery option. He told me, that battery option sounds better in all aspects.
(this friend comes next weekend to me and takes his amp with)
This friend builded several pass amps last years, one of them zenV4 with high grade parts, and he sold them after constructing his hiraga with battery option!
Henrick: with standard psu i mean "non battery psu"
to the question for the 2-3 amperes quiscent current of the JLH: youre right, but the answer is :you need big batterie to be able to play about 5 hours min.
I am in search of best musik reproduktion and cause of this i dont matter about the size of an amp.
Daniel:
since oyu are the man who build an amp faster than anyone reads the schematics: would it not be an intersting project for you to build a JLH?
Regards,
Ralf
hi Daniel, Hi Henrick
in the last year i made some experiences with Hiraga le monstre and JLH.
both sound better the better the components you use , are.
In comparison to X-soz/bosoz , which are not so sensitive about the used components.
The question, which resistor sound best is hard to answer. i think it depends on the amp you use and the other components like Cd Player, cables etc.
Fact is, that if you want to build somewhat very good sounding you have to use high quality parts.
Battery PSU:
A good friend of mine builded the hiraga amp with conventional psu and with battery option. He told me, that battery option sounds better in all aspects.
(this friend comes next weekend to me and takes his amp with)
This friend builded several pass amps last years, one of them zenV4 with high grade parts, and he sold them after constructing his hiraga with battery option!
Henrick: with standard psu i mean "non battery psu"
to the question for the 2-3 amperes quiscent current of the JLH: youre right, but the answer is :you need big batterie to be able to play about 5 hours min.
I am in search of best musik reproduktion and cause of this i dont matter about the size of an amp.
Daniel:
since oyu are the man who build an amp faster than anyone reads the schematics: would it not be an intersting project for you to build a JLH?
Regards,
Ralf
All I have read about battery supplies have few consistant traits.
Very quiet, smooth musical sound.
Lack of dynamics.
Not all types of batteries work well.
But, I am very interested in hearing the difference in the same amp when you compare them.
I also think you could make a big supply with a huge choke input and lots of caps that can be almost battery like. Something I am working on for SOZ/XSOZ.
The most limiting facter is the power output devices. These have the most noise and distortion in a circuit(as Mr. Pass stated). The way I see it. A really quiet supply that can deliver all the power needed without being taxed helps. But, has it's limit do to the ouput devices.
Where will you be posting your results? Is there a separate thread?
Very quiet, smooth musical sound.
Lack of dynamics.
Not all types of batteries work well.
But, I am very interested in hearing the difference in the same amp when you compare them.
I also think you could make a big supply with a huge choke input and lots of caps that can be almost battery like. Something I am working on for SOZ/XSOZ.
The most limiting facter is the power output devices. These have the most noise and distortion in a circuit(as Mr. Pass stated). The way I see it. A really quiet supply that can deliver all the power needed without being taxed helps. But, has it's limit do to the ouput devices.
Where will you be posting your results? Is there a separate thread?
After playing with GC for some time, it would be hard for me to find a better sounding SS amp (in some aspects of sonic satisfaction of course). Do you have a link to JLH?
As to batteries being better, it probably depends on your mains condition and will vary greatly with location. I'm using baterries with my DAT recorder and comparing to a regular PS, it is slightly better (highs are smoother) but not that much.
As to batteries being better, it probably depends on your mains condition and will vary greatly with location. I'm using baterries with my DAT recorder and comparing to a regular PS, it is slightly better (highs are smoother) but not that much.
batteries
..no i will not post in a separate thread.
there are many posts about the battery supply
My Friend had used a good conventional Psu for the hiraga first, and then he updated with battery supply. (2 farad caps after each battery!!!)
He told me, the sound improved in all aspects - also in dynamics!
I konow him good ind trust his statements, but in weekend of Okt, 12 i will exactly know...
Ralf
..no i will not post in a separate thread.
there are many posts about the battery supply
My Friend had used a good conventional Psu for the hiraga first, and then he updated with battery supply. (2 farad caps after each battery!!!)
He told me, the sound improved in all aspects - also in dynamics!
I konow him good ind trust his statements, but in weekend of Okt, 12 i will exactly know...
Ralf
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