INTRO/USE:
I will be building and finishing these before the end of april! (I swear! Well, at least the actual construction, finishing work may take longer).
I searched for a good hour or two for another thread about the Poplar, and besides some threads discussing speakers good for being "against the wall", I didn't find evidence of any actual posted builds. Please direct me to any if you know of one and maybe we can move this thread there. My only prior experience so far is building a pair of FHMK3 last year which I purchased in a kit for from Big Wood Studios.
I have a pair of Mark Audio MAOP 10.2's that I broke in for 3 months last year and they are still waiting for an enclosure. I finished my Akitka amp kit last week (finally), and am ready to pair the Poplars with it in the bedroom. I purchased the plans a few months ago from Scott at Woden designs.
QUESTIONS:
-What plywood to use?
I want to use plywood, but as a newcomer in selecting the wood myself I do not know at what grade of baltic birch or marine grade ply that no appreciable acoustical benefits are gained from going up in quality. There is a local lumber yard that has "BB" grade baltic birch, and also marine ply, but I have no idea if I should be asking for certain type of core of marine ply, etc.
I am hoping to pick up the ply this week if I can figure this out. Sadly there is no poplar ply available nearby. Any notes of good alternatives that are readily available in the American West would be greatly appreciated.
-Where to orient the port?
(front, or mirrored on sides?)
I was planning on putting the ports on mirrored sides for versatility (oriented towards corner for more bass, away for less). I am unsure how much the different port orientation would effect their presentation. I'm not as keen on a bottom port, as there may be furniture below on speaker and not the other. (I will probably email Scott this question, but didn't want to bother him in the preliminary build phase).
FINISHING:
-Impossible Veneer Plan?
I was thinking of putting a roundover on the front sides of the cabinet from top to bottom. Is it possible to veneer with one piece from back left side all the way across the front and to the back right side with a single piece of veneer? I would assume at minimum a "tight grained" veneer would be needed, and steam or heat of some kind. I have a hobby iron (the type used for finishing rc airplanes) as well as a nice clothes steamer that could be used to try this, but was looking for some experienced input before I get to that point.
My heart is not set on this, but it would be a neat trick to pull off. (I.E. I am willing to put in an inordinate amount of time to accomplish this as it's for my personal enjoyment and learning, vs. if I were making these for profit.)
That's it for questions at the moment.
I really appreciate any input and help. As this project gets underway, I'll be sure to put up some photos and impressions as I make my way through this journey!
Thanks everyone!
I will be building and finishing these before the end of april! (I swear! Well, at least the actual construction, finishing work may take longer).
I searched for a good hour or two for another thread about the Poplar, and besides some threads discussing speakers good for being "against the wall", I didn't find evidence of any actual posted builds. Please direct me to any if you know of one and maybe we can move this thread there. My only prior experience so far is building a pair of FHMK3 last year which I purchased in a kit for from Big Wood Studios.
I have a pair of Mark Audio MAOP 10.2's that I broke in for 3 months last year and they are still waiting for an enclosure. I finished my Akitka amp kit last week (finally), and am ready to pair the Poplars with it in the bedroom. I purchased the plans a few months ago from Scott at Woden designs.
QUESTIONS:
-What plywood to use?
I want to use plywood, but as a newcomer in selecting the wood myself I do not know at what grade of baltic birch or marine grade ply that no appreciable acoustical benefits are gained from going up in quality. There is a local lumber yard that has "BB" grade baltic birch, and also marine ply, but I have no idea if I should be asking for certain type of core of marine ply, etc.
I am hoping to pick up the ply this week if I can figure this out. Sadly there is no poplar ply available nearby. Any notes of good alternatives that are readily available in the American West would be greatly appreciated.
-Where to orient the port?
(front, or mirrored on sides?)
I was planning on putting the ports on mirrored sides for versatility (oriented towards corner for more bass, away for less). I am unsure how much the different port orientation would effect their presentation. I'm not as keen on a bottom port, as there may be furniture below on speaker and not the other. (I will probably email Scott this question, but didn't want to bother him in the preliminary build phase).
FINISHING:
-Impossible Veneer Plan?
I was thinking of putting a roundover on the front sides of the cabinet from top to bottom. Is it possible to veneer with one piece from back left side all the way across the front and to the back right side with a single piece of veneer? I would assume at minimum a "tight grained" veneer would be needed, and steam or heat of some kind. I have a hobby iron (the type used for finishing rc airplanes) as well as a nice clothes steamer that could be used to try this, but was looking for some experienced input before I get to that point.
My heart is not set on this, but it would be a neat trick to pull off. (I.E. I am willing to put in an inordinate amount of time to accomplish this as it's for my personal enjoyment and learning, vs. if I were making these for profit.)
That's it for questions at the moment.
I really appreciate any input and help. As this project gets underway, I'll be sure to put up some photos and impressions as I make my way through this journey!
Thanks everyone!
A couple of observations:
In the over 15yrs of building a wide range of enclosures designed mostly by Planet10 and Scott at Woden, I used almost exclusively BB, in either the 5x5 or 4x8 sheet sizes, and never any thicker than 18mm (nominally 3/4”, but when you measure with a digital gauge, it’s not).
It’s not particularly difficult to wrap veneer around a large radius curve ( i.e. over 3/4”) in the long grain direction, but of course that requires at least some reinforcement at the panel joints without the use of brad nails or screws. Even with a hefty enough router to spin a bit that size, I’d recommend a few passes rather than all at once.
I’ve had great success with the most basic iron on glue technique using thin paperback veneer, and never found the need to steam treat the material. While there are specially formulated veneering glues and rollers, I only ever used yellow cabinetmakers glue painted on each surface with a cheap 3” thin napped fleece paint roller.
Depending on the size of the cabinet, a single piece can certainly be wrapped around the front and both sides, and maybe even the back, but supporting and handling the larger ones can almost be a two person job.
I was always a fuss-*** about trying to align grain patterns around each cabinet and match between pairs or multiples, which doesn’t always deliver the most efficient yield. The layout, alignment marking and cutting can represent a significant portion of the entire process, particularly on something like the FHXL.
Now, wrapping around a radius in the cross grain direction is a whole ‘nother question.
In the over 15yrs of building a wide range of enclosures designed mostly by Planet10 and Scott at Woden, I used almost exclusively BB, in either the 5x5 or 4x8 sheet sizes, and never any thicker than 18mm (nominally 3/4”, but when you measure with a digital gauge, it’s not).
It’s not particularly difficult to wrap veneer around a large radius curve ( i.e. over 3/4”) in the long grain direction, but of course that requires at least some reinforcement at the panel joints without the use of brad nails or screws. Even with a hefty enough router to spin a bit that size, I’d recommend a few passes rather than all at once.
I’ve had great success with the most basic iron on glue technique using thin paperback veneer, and never found the need to steam treat the material. While there are specially formulated veneering glues and rollers, I only ever used yellow cabinetmakers glue painted on each surface with a cheap 3” thin napped fleece paint roller.
Depending on the size of the cabinet, a single piece can certainly be wrapped around the front and both sides, and maybe even the back, but supporting and handling the larger ones can almost be a two person job.
I was always a fuss-*** about trying to align grain patterns around each cabinet and match between pairs or multiples, which doesn’t always deliver the most efficient yield. The layout, alignment marking and cutting can represent a significant portion of the entire process, particularly on something like the FHXL.
Now, wrapping around a radius in the cross grain direction is a whole ‘nother question.
Attachments
More important than the actual wood species, the quality of the plies and the number of them are the important bits.
dave
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Void-free BB is what you want in plywood for speakers.
Here in the UK is at least one plywood manufacturer that lets you choose every aspect of it ie species of wood (you can mix&match), number of layers and you can even get it with sound deadening layers of rubber or soft plastic in the middle.
The drawback is the price and minimum order requirements. Basically a no go unless you intend to build quite a few speakers.
Here in the UK is at least one plywood manufacturer that lets you choose every aspect of it ie species of wood (you can mix&match), number of layers and you can even get it with sound deadening layers of rubber or soft plastic in the middle.
The drawback is the price and minimum order requirements. Basically a no go unless you intend to build quite a few speakers.
Is there a desired minimum ply count for 3/4 (18mm) plywood?
Does "quality of the plies" refer to no voids? Or is there more to it than that?
Is there a certain grade of plywood where anything at that level or above should have no voids?
Do the patches on the plywood faces matter acoustically? Or are they a moot point if the speakers are to be veneered?
I guess this is where being new to selecting wood comes in.
A quick google search and I am in deeper than I understand. There are listings of B/BB, BB/BB, BB/CP, CP/CP, and C grades of plywood as google states. The person who answered the phone at the lumber yard just stated they had "baltic, grade BB". I have no idea if that means B/BB, BB/BB, BB/CP.
How do people actually refer to the grades? (since the lumberyard just said "BB").
Are these questions unanswerable due to the individual nature of lumber in the yard (i.e. do i need to just go, inspect, and purchase?)
Am I overthinking this?
Ultimately, I am aware any wood speakers are better than no wood speakers. So I am unwilling to let analysis paralysis keep me from buying the wood this week.
Thanks again everyone for lending an ear and your time.
IIRC, the 18mm BB I used was 13 ply count for “shop” grade, and if you want to get really pedantic, add another 2 plies for the furniture/ architectural grades with fine species face veneers - which were very thin and aesthetic not structural.
For the last half dozen or so years, ours was sourced from Murphy Plywood in Oregon, and was a similar to the products perhaps more widely recognized under the trade name of ApplePly.
To Charles’ point above, I was fortunate enough to be working at the time in the commercial cabinetry trade that allowed us to pull from open stock for either 18mm or 12mm - i.e. as few as one sheet at a time - but when we found 15mm to be sufficient for many projects, we need to order from the mill at half “lift” quantities (20 sheets)
As to your question re patches for larger knots, we never found that to be sonically significant, but as some of the shop grades often ignored the much smaller pin knots, those would need filling as they could telegraph through the veneer.
For the last half dozen or so years, ours was sourced from Murphy Plywood in Oregon, and was a similar to the products perhaps more widely recognized under the trade name of ApplePly.
To Charles’ point above, I was fortunate enough to be working at the time in the commercial cabinetry trade that allowed us to pull from open stock for either 18mm or 12mm - i.e. as few as one sheet at a time - but when we found 15mm to be sufficient for many projects, we need to order from the mill at half “lift” quantities (20 sheets)
As to your question re patches for larger knots, we never found that to be sonically significant, but as some of the shop grades often ignored the much smaller pin knots, those would need filling as they could telegraph through the veneer.
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Void-free is what the ply is called here.
Structurally that is as good as it gets but there are further grades. Furniture grade is void free and the outermost layers have no obvious or visible patches and marine ply uses saltwater resistant glue.
Exact terminology might differ between UK and North America though.
Structurally that is as good as it gets but there are further grades. Furniture grade is void free and the outermost layers have no obvious or visible patches and marine ply uses saltwater resistant glue.
Exact terminology might differ between UK and North America though.
In Europe best is to look for B/BB or BB/BB 13ply Birch pywood. If you can't find Birch, Beech is as good (but hard to find in high quality). And most important, it must be void free.
The place i mostly go look for that if you ask them. They ran out of Birch (due to the war in Ukraine and the boycot of Russia) so i used BB/BB 18mm 13 ply Beech in the last projects and it's as good.
The place i mostly go look for that if you ask them. They ran out of Birch (due to the war in Ukraine and the boycot of Russia) so i used BB/BB 18mm 13 ply Beech in the last projects and it's as good.
Bought the lumber. 3/4" (18mm) Baltic Birch. 13 ply. Looks to be BB/BB or BB/CP grade as there are quite a few patches on both sides. the plys look solid from the edges though. I got two sheets.
$191 for each 4x8 sheet. I bought two sheets.🤑It was not far away and that sealed the deal. I did ask if they had any other ply sheets with 13 layers for 3/4" (18mm) and they did not. It was available in 4x8 sheets and 5x10.
Appleply from Oregon was twice as expensive... but couldn't get it in 4x8 or 5' x 5' either.
I am going to do some math tonight and see if it is possible to fit the Maeshowe cuts in with these Poplar cuts. (I have some pluvia 7 phd and that was my planned next project) It may be impossible, we'll see.
Plan on ripping the wood tomorrow on the table saw after planning.
What do you recommend for patching the pinholes?
Thanks again to all for your help!
$191 for each 4x8 sheet. I bought two sheets.🤑It was not far away and that sealed the deal. I did ask if they had any other ply sheets with 13 layers for 3/4" (18mm) and they did not. It was available in 4x8 sheets and 5x10.
Appleply from Oregon was twice as expensive... but couldn't get it in 4x8 or 5' x 5' either.
I am going to do some math tonight and see if it is possible to fit the Maeshowe cuts in with these Poplar cuts. (I have some pluvia 7 phd and that was my planned next project) It may be impossible, we'll see.
Plan on ripping the wood tomorrow on the table saw after planning.
There are quite a few pinholes.
What do you recommend for patching the pinholes?
Thanks again to all for your help!
I found almost any hard curing filler worked fine and as often as not, I’d use 2 part auto body “Bondo” type fillers on both pin holes and exposed ply edges; mind you I generally went for 45dg beveled edges. If you’re planning on rounding over the long vertical edges of ply, you’ll definitely have to contend with porosity greater than with a hardwood such as Sapele or walnut.
A early small stand mount pair Birds Eye maple and flat slice American black walnut.
A early small stand mount pair Birds Eye maple and flat slice American black walnut.
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Thanks again everyone for all the input!
I got the wood for the Poplar build ripped. I used a circular saw with 60 tooth blade to break the board down into manageable pieces. I have crosscut all the baffles and rear pieces with an 80 tooth table saw blade and crosscut sled.
Just have to cut the other three sides (short side, bottom, top, and vent piece.)
Then I’ll route the rebates to help with assembly/gluing. I cut the internal pieces a 1/2” wider in order to accommodate 1/4” rebates.
Hoping to finish cutting and be ready to assemble by the weeks end.
Happy Easter to anyone who celebrates it! Will keep posted!
I got the wood for the Poplar build ripped. I used a circular saw with 60 tooth blade to break the board down into manageable pieces. I have crosscut all the baffles and rear pieces with an 80 tooth table saw blade and crosscut sled.
Just have to cut the other three sides (short side, bottom, top, and vent piece.)
Then I’ll route the rebates to help with assembly/gluing. I cut the internal pieces a 1/2” wider in order to accommodate 1/4” rebates.
Hoping to finish cutting and be ready to assemble by the weeks end.
Happy Easter to anyone who celebrates it! Will keep posted!
Cutting completed mid April, however I have to rebuild my cross cut sled and router table. I have been building raised garden beds the last week. So… Have to finish some time sensitive projects before getting back to the build, sadly. They will be completed this year though! Hopefully before summers end.
I will complete this thread! Oh yes, I will complete this thread.
I will complete this thread! Oh yes, I will complete this thread.
Sadly, no progress, still lying cut in the corner of the garage. Summer projects have been the priority. I am to build some Christmas gifts this year, so I should be able to get the crosscut sled, the router table top, and the speakers done in November/December when I have the shop unpacked from the garage corner.
Look forward to reading about your build!
Look forward to reading about your build!
Not yet, but I am making some slow progress on my crosscut sled. I got my frugel-horns sanded and primed, so a family member could paint them with cart Blanche for sentimental value.
I’m not going to quote anymore month completion estimates, but once sled is done, the poplar construction will commence.
I’m not going to quote anymore month completion estimates, but once sled is done, the poplar construction will commence.
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