One of my friends (electronics engineer with single ended triode amplifier with only 3 gain stages and one capacitor in a signal path - a gem!) who believed firmly that wires don't make any difference was totally convinced that he was wrong only after a minute of listening to his amplifier plugged to power outlet via one of my solid core silver plated copper power cables. The funny thing is - the last place where the wire type / material / configuration could make a difference was in power cable - so he thought!
So, to further turn him around in to a true believer, I suggested to him to replace 15cm of the multi strand copper shielded hook-up wiring between input RCA's and stepped attenuator with two peaces of silver ribbons with air dielectric - no shielding. He was completely blown away... the space between instruments, speed, definition - everything just bloomed right in front of his eyes.
So, to summarise: he is electronics engineer who believes in good specifications, valves (because the way they amplify the signal - using electrons' flow) and firmly rejected even the slightest possibility that interconnects would make the difference, let alone power cable whose only purpose was just to plug the unit in to mains. However, after he listened to a cheap JAE (computer) power cord supplied with the amplifier, compared to a good quality solid core silver plated copper power cable; his firm unshakable belief in to unimportance of cabling was gone forever. After the silver ribbons treatment he became a believer forever.
Slightly off-topic:
next step was replacement of 4 bridge rectifier diodes used to directly heat the output valve cathode. I used fast switching soft recovery diodes as a replacement. His words were: "No way could the cathode heating diodes ever make a difference..." Well, the sound was much smoother, warmer with a great deal of added definition and layering. It was very easy to notice the difference. And we are talking about cathode heating diodes - not HT plate supplies!!! Latter on, within a week, I finished the mods the way I intended – with no further (“highly technical”) questions asked.
Extreme_Boky
So, to further turn him around in to a true believer, I suggested to him to replace 15cm of the multi strand copper shielded hook-up wiring between input RCA's and stepped attenuator with two peaces of silver ribbons with air dielectric - no shielding. He was completely blown away... the space between instruments, speed, definition - everything just bloomed right in front of his eyes.
So, to summarise: he is electronics engineer who believes in good specifications, valves (because the way they amplify the signal - using electrons' flow) and firmly rejected even the slightest possibility that interconnects would make the difference, let alone power cable whose only purpose was just to plug the unit in to mains. However, after he listened to a cheap JAE (computer) power cord supplied with the amplifier, compared to a good quality solid core silver plated copper power cable; his firm unshakable belief in to unimportance of cabling was gone forever. After the silver ribbons treatment he became a believer forever.
Slightly off-topic:
next step was replacement of 4 bridge rectifier diodes used to directly heat the output valve cathode. I used fast switching soft recovery diodes as a replacement. His words were: "No way could the cathode heating diodes ever make a difference..." Well, the sound was much smoother, warmer with a great deal of added definition and layering. It was very easy to notice the difference. And we are talking about cathode heating diodes - not HT plate supplies!!! Latter on, within a week, I finished the mods the way I intended – with no further (“highly technical”) questions asked.
Extreme_Boky
...this is a typical engineering pragmatical approach: if it works, let's do it! Later, somebody interested will take care of modeling it 
Common thought often "marks" engineers as theoretical scientists, while I find/feel they are not. They do have strong theoretical basis but IMHO they do/ have a very empirical (try and error) approach to solve issue and an open mind, to develop new things.
Kind regards to you all,
Stefano
P.S.: of course personally involved in this "peroratio"
Common thought often "marks" engineers as theoretical scientists, while I find/feel they are not. They do have strong theoretical basis but IMHO they do/ have a very empirical (try and error) approach to solve issue and an open mind, to develop new things.
Kind regards to you all,
Stefano
P.S.: of course personally involved in this "peroratio"
maxlorenz said:
...
You can deprive it from the (PVC?) cover and add your own teflon tubing
Burn-in time, allow around 2-3 days.
Please post your impression if you get some wire
Good luck.
M
Ciao Mauricio, all,
ever tried a (larger) cotton sleeve, rather than teflon? (I didn't, yet).
Stefano
Banned
Joined 2002
Ok, let's give away more secrets of a trade....
You are right - air is the best. However, if the wire run is long, you have to make sure that it won’t touch anything. So, sleeving is a must. Cotton is perfect and compared to all other materials - showed the best sound character.
To obtain the best possible results, I combine 2 or 3 (or more!) different widths of silver ribbons to make one hook-up conductor. Usually, for low signal hook-up wiring I use 1.5 mm, 2 and 3.2mm widths, individually isolated from each other with cotton sleeving.
I experimented with one conductor and air dielectric against more then one in cotton sleeving. The last one was far superior to only one ribbon and air dielectric.
For large signal (mains) wiring I use 2 ribbons; one 5 mm and the other 7 mm. Again, they have to be individually "sleeved" to avoid contact between them. The thickness is also important (and costly in 5 and 7mm pure silver ribbon versions!!!).
To remind you again, annealing is the only way to go with silver wire / ribbon. “Row” silver sounds harsh and unnatural. It wipes-out harmonic richness from the sound.
Extreme_Boky
You are right - air is the best. However, if the wire run is long, you have to make sure that it won’t touch anything. So, sleeving is a must. Cotton is perfect and compared to all other materials - showed the best sound character.
To obtain the best possible results, I combine 2 or 3 (or more!) different widths of silver ribbons to make one hook-up conductor. Usually, for low signal hook-up wiring I use 1.5 mm, 2 and 3.2mm widths, individually isolated from each other with cotton sleeving.
I experimented with one conductor and air dielectric against more then one in cotton sleeving. The last one was far superior to only one ribbon and air dielectric.
For large signal (mains) wiring I use 2 ribbons; one 5 mm and the other 7 mm. Again, they have to be individually "sleeved" to avoid contact between them. The thickness is also important (and costly in 5 and 7mm pure silver ribbon versions!!!).
To remind you again, annealing is the only way to go with silver wire / ribbon. “Row” silver sounds harsh and unnatural. It wipes-out harmonic richness from the sound.
Extreme_Boky
Thanks Boky!
What do you mean by "anneal"?
What is a "hook up" versus "mains" conductor? I think hook up conductor means the wire that connects your SPDIF input (BNC or RCA) to the printed circuit board. Mains conductor is the wire that connects the analogue output stage to the output RCA. Am I correct?
What do you mean by "anneal"?
What is a "hook up" versus "mains" conductor? I think hook up conductor means the wire that connects your SPDIF input (BNC or RCA) to the printed circuit board. Mains conductor is the wire that connects the analogue output stage to the output RCA. Am I correct?
Stefano:
Extreme-boky's answer (and experience) is more complete than mine
I havn't used cotton but I will (only for the looks )
I have used bare silver and copper on short leads, with care. I can't really say if it sounds better as I haven't compared it to standard wire.
I am worried by possible effects of surface oxidation
Can anybodycomment about that?
Thanks
M
Extreme-boky's answer (and experience) is more complete than mine
I havn't used cotton but I will (only for the looks
)I have used bare silver and copper on short leads, with care. I can't really say if it sounds better
as I haven't compared it to standard wire.I am worried by possible effects of surface oxidation
Can anybodycomment about that?
Thanks
M
M,
Silver oxidizes but it does not degrade its conductivity. But copper when it oxidizes will degrade signal transmission. Hope this helps.
I'd be careful about using olive oil - it can catch fire! It will probably protect the wire from oxidation. Sodium metal is stored in Kerosine oil to prevent oxidation. Sodium metal is highly volitle and explosive if it contacts water and oxidizes readily when it come in contact with air (inert gases excluded).
Silver oxidizes but it does not degrade its conductivity. But copper when it oxidizes will degrade signal transmission. Hope this helps.
I'd be careful about using olive oil - it can catch fire! It will probably protect the wire from oxidation. Sodium metal is stored in Kerosine oil to prevent oxidation. Sodium metal is highly volitle and explosive if it contacts water and oxidizes readily when it come in contact with air (inert gases excluded).
Annealed = heat treated silver. Untreated silver is very hard to work with and sounds harsh. Heat treated silver is very soft and sounds completely different from untreated silver.
Hook-up wiring is low signal audio wiring between input connectors and PCB's or between two PCB's or point to point wiring used in valves' gear.
Mains wiring is high tension 240 / 220 / 110V AC wiring.
Silver oxide is a very good conductor - therefore no need to take special care to prevent oxidation. Silver copper gold aluminium silver oxide in descending order of conductivity.
Copper is usually hermetically sealed in Teflon (good quality interconnects) to prevent oxidation.
Extreme_Boky
http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
uninsulated Cardas solid core silver, page two, middle.
uninsulated Cardas solid core silver, page two, middle.
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