Done.
I'm tending toward the conclusion that the confusion isn't so much from "what is a full range loudspeaker?" as it is from "what is the difference between a full range loudspeaker and a 2- or 3- way, with the LF connected as full range?"
To me, a full range speaker with "These can sometimes be "helped" with a tweeter(s) or a woofer(s)" is technically a 2-way. But since the design emphasis is very much aimed at the FR driver, it is suitable for this forum.
I believe that is what the OP was referring to. When the design emphasis is on a multi-way system as a whole, posters are better served in the other forum.
I'm tending toward the conclusion that the confusion isn't so much from "what is a full range loudspeaker?" as it is from "what is the difference between a full range loudspeaker and a 2- or 3- way, with the LF connected as full range?"
To me, a full range speaker with "These can sometimes be "helped" with a tweeter(s) or a woofer(s)" is technically a 2-way. But since the design emphasis is very much aimed at the FR driver, it is suitable for this forum.
I believe that is what the OP was referring to. When the design emphasis is on a multi-way system as a whole, posters are better served in the other forum.
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Aha! for some reason I thought crossovers were more complicated than just a cap. I might have to play with one in my next speaker build so I get a better understanding of them. Thanks mate!
Taken from their site:
"The tweeter’s high-pass is, by design, a simple, single component network, a single polypro’ capacitor."
Quite common when crossing over that high.
It's a fullrange with a helper tweeter, often called a supertweeter.
Yes, it's called point source, one of the advantages of FR and coax systems
Thanks for the helpful explanation mate, I can feel my understanding on this shifting under my feet as I type!
Well you learn something new every day! I had no idea that the problems with crossovers were so easy to introduce, I always thought of it as difficult to do properly. It is funny how these things go.
Thank you for taking the time to address my comments
Sorry, but I cannot give up either ultimate levels or dynamics - hence why I don't think XO less speaker are for everyone.
Just like anything there are tradeoffs. I would rather trade a whole slew of distortions for ultimate levels and dynamics. Besides, all XO are not the devil that you are making it. There are some well designed XO that do not introduce a "whole slew of distortions"(which I think is an exaggeration). Any XO will introduce some distortion, but so will a single driver trying to do deep bass and high frequencies at live levels.
Sorry bb,
Your post led me to believe you needed that elementary of an explanation.
I dont agree with the idea that a fullrange NEED to cover all the ranges. A fullrange will never give powerful bass. I personnally dont believe that anyone can be satisfied with only a fullrange for their main system. for the highs, I can live easily with just a fullrange, but I personnally absolutely need powerful bass, and no fullrange can give chess pumping bass.
I dont listen to my music loud, but even at low volumes, what stereo sub do cannot be done by a fullrange. their is no feeling of bass with a fullrange, you just hear it. I like to feel my bass personnaly.
What I really like is the fact that I have no crossover in the midrange, but a XO at 100 hz is really no big deal and you dont hear it at all, its just big bass with the clarity in the mid and high from a fullrange.
anywas
Even for people listening only to jazz, i listen to jazz 40% of the time, and even that, I need my bass to keep me grooving, and no 6 inch or even 8 inch fullrange will give me what some stereo sub will give me under 100 hz. its already incredible that a fullrange can give a flat response from 100 hz to 15 khz, a fullrange is a wideband driver, simple as that, but it cant go flat down to 50 hz at 100 db without ridiculous excursion ect.
I dont listen to my music loud, but even at low volumes, what stereo sub do cannot be done by a fullrange. their is no feeling of bass with a fullrange, you just hear it. I like to feel my bass personnaly.
What I really like is the fact that I have no crossover in the midrange, but a XO at 100 hz is really no big deal and you dont hear it at all, its just big bass with the clarity in the mid and high from a fullrange.
anywas
Even for people listening only to jazz, i listen to jazz 40% of the time, and even that, I need my bass to keep me grooving, and no 6 inch or even 8 inch fullrange will give me what some stereo sub will give me under 100 hz. its already incredible that a fullrange can give a flat response from 100 hz to 15 khz, a fullrange is a wideband driver, simple as that, but it cant go flat down to 50 hz at 100 db without ridiculous excursion ect.
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Hmmmm...
There's a pair of 12" coaxials back home, where the main cone has a whizzer, and will hit ~10kHz before rolling off gently. Until you switch the tweeters in, there's not much missing.
70L, 30Hz tuning, and each side will stand 600w (yes, I've tried, one side at a time - my big bass amp ran out of steam before the drivers complained). When one speaker is 98dB@1w, they can go stupid loud.
They're similar to the Eminence Beta 12LT, but nicer drivers: cast frame, better motor etc.
FR drivers can do bass, but they'll need a supertweeter.
Chris
There's a pair of 12" coaxials back home, where the main cone has a whizzer, and will hit ~10kHz before rolling off gently. Until you switch the tweeters in, there's not much missing.
70L, 30Hz tuning, and each side will stand 600w (yes, I've tried, one side at a time - my big bass amp ran out of steam before the drivers complained). When one speaker is 98dB@1w, they can go stupid loud.
They're similar to the Eminence Beta 12LT, but nicer drivers: cast frame, better motor etc.
FR drivers can do bass, but they'll need a supertweeter.
Chris
Wow very unfriendly and uncool in my book. You post what you have questions about or need help with? I thought that is what these forums are all about helping each other out?
First of off thank you for posting about this topic
. I would have to say that in all my years that no driver is really run range. If you use the smaller drivers it lacks low end and has to crossed over. If you use the bigger drivers they lack top end sparkle and the lowest notes. So for me a perfect project would be the Visaton stella light. You get the best of both worlds with out a tweeter or super tweeter. This is my next project I am going to build this project for my family room. It will be used for light t.v. dutys and back round music and movies. I will change the 6 1/2 woofer to a 8 inch woofer and do some changes in the box volume inside. I will say this after having so many fullrange drivers over the years.Testing and buying and selling and losing money. That There is not a perfect driver or (holy grail) So I stopped looking and testing drivers. The best instruments and listening devices is your ears. My holy grail is my ears. Now I have heard and used one fullrange range driver that is a 3 inch fullrange driver. It is as close as I could come to the perfect fullrange driver That I could live with the rest of my life but, lack low end. It is The fostex ff 85wk drivers. For the record, I think adding a lower support woofer is a great idea and to me its still fullrange from 350hz all the way up with out a tweeter using a 3 inch fullrange driver 
. Jm
Bob that is where I start my mid-range planning; so that wouldn't work for me.
I would need an octave in each direction as a minimum.
That's Vifa P-13 territory and no-one would regard the P-13 as a Full-Range
No speaker is for everyone. The addition of helper woofers below ~300 Hz goes a really long way toward providing it all.(ie down where wavelengths are long enuff that many of the evils of XOs can be made to go away)
Watch the loudness... it is easy to get into hearing damaging levels.
dave
I don't understand the purpose of this thread.
Are we trying to set a standard of what constitutes a full range loudspeaker?
So that people know what sections to post their inquiries, topics and build threads?
Because if that's the goal, I think this might become the longest thread on DIYaudio!
Are we trying to set a standard of what constitutes a full range loudspeaker?
So that people know what sections to post their inquiries, topics and build threads?
Because if that's the goal, I think this might become the longest thread on DIYaudio!
Pretty much what i'm listening to now. FF85wKeN in µFonkenSET with a same footprint helper woofer. It works REALLY well with a PLLXO, am working on a passive XO now.
dave
Sorry bb,
Your post led me to believe you needed that elementary of an explanation.
I would rather be corrected than continue being ignorant!
The sad part is, I knew the Tannoy dual-concentric drivers had a crossover, so in my head that obviously meant they couldn't have been a full range. Then these guys come along and say no crossover and I guess I got caught up in their marketing.
That said, they are a nice sounding pair of speakers, but luckily for me I went home to my VTLs and enjoyed them more
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