here we go again
bass should not be quicker or slower than its supposed to be, to follow the music signal
but it might sound like you want to drive it at its limit, or maybe beyond
and you expect it to still be able to keep up with the pace
in that case I would suggest to turn down the volume pot a bit instead, its simpler, cheaper, and probably sounds better too
hi tinitus like you said bass should be bass but I will tell you one thing I have a sheer doubt regarding the amps not able to feed the drivers properly.. Dont get me wrong im talking about current feed. So in the above case like for 600Watts into 8, 16, 32 ohms how much current is demanded from the amplifier?
me too
some can do it, and some fail completely, absolutelyRotel amps seems to be able to
even the smaller and cheaper ones
dont know why
so lets consider from a discrete amp the output voltage capability is 30VRms so according to the equation I = P/V it can be 600watts/30 which is 20Arms instantaneously. Now the point is that its huge current... yet practical.. Lets consider we have a serious drummer playing with lower notes... so for a stereo configuration it will go to 20x2 like 40Amps at the max not yet calculating the midbass drivers requirement.
So for 600Watt amplifier we need to consider not less than 1.2Kva or 2.2Kva for stereo.
If we are adding the midbass driver aswell then I think to be on a decently safer side we need to have not less than 2Kva per channel.
I think thats why amps like Krell never stint at bass...
and if my calculations are right and having very good headroom then one very important thing is I was actually underestimating the 3 way speaker power hungriness.
There are Industrial Grade Alcon capacitors for a 10000uf/100v the ripple is rated 13.26 at 85 Degree Centigrade and at 45 degrees its rated at 27Arms so even having 3 of them per rail will be sufficient enough for each channel of 2KVA trafo.
So for 600Watt amplifier we need to consider not less than 1.2Kva or 2.2Kva for stereo.
If we are adding the midbass driver aswell then I think to be on a decently safer side we need to have not less than 2Kva per channel.
I think thats why amps like Krell never stint at bass...
and if my calculations are right and having very good headroom then one very important thing is I was actually underestimating the 3 way speaker power hungriness.
There are Industrial Grade Alcon capacitors for a 10000uf/100v the ripple is rated 13.26 at 85 Degree Centigrade and at 45 degrees its rated at 27Arms so even having 3 of them per rail will be sufficient enough for each channel of 2KVA trafo.
http://www.audioalchemy.ro/difuzoare/vifa/pl26wr09-08e.pdf
http://www.audiokit.it/ITAENG/Altoparlanti/VIFA/PL26WR09-08.pdf
its according to IEC 18.2 and 18.3
http://www.audiokit.it/ITAENG/Altoparlanti/VIFA/PL26WR09-08.pdf
its according to IEC 18.2 and 18.3
letting that kind of power loose in a home will most likely sound horrible
150watt pushing a pair of 15" pro woofers is definately my personal limit
and not for too long please
it would make a lot more sense to have interest in producing good bass at comfortable SPL
one you can listen to for hours and hours, and still not get enough of
without any hearing damage
150watt pushing a pair of 15" pro woofers is definately my personal limit
and not for too long please
it would make a lot more sense to have interest in producing good bass at comfortable SPL
one you can listen to for hours and hours, and still not get enough of
without any hearing damage
start with a bass driver(s) that has a large radiating area... have high power with low distortion and high sensitivity and low distortion. Did I mention low distortion? then a very powerful amplifier(s). 4-15 inch bass drivers good place to start. High power mono block amp(s) as well. At least 450W into 4 Ohms at low distortion (0.1% or less). Its expensive to get 'real' sounding bass.
I have to use 4 Cerwin Vega 15 inch bass drivers - PRO type with high sens and power capacity and 900W (rms) mono-block ss amps I designed myself. Plus adding into it 2 each 18 inch Ultra TC Sounds sub drivers and electronic crossover on the bass. That gets the job done to my satisfaction. Tight fisted, clean, dynamic as all h**l. In a word: realistic bass from guitar to organ to kick drum. And, if you push it hard - good for parlor tricks too... if you dont open the doors and windows, it will blow out a candle from 12 feet and press your pants while you are still in them Wretched excess is just right when it comes to bass. -RNM
I have to use 4 Cerwin Vega 15 inch bass drivers - PRO type with high sens and power capacity and 900W (rms) mono-block ss amps I designed myself. Plus adding into it 2 each 18 inch Ultra TC Sounds sub drivers and electronic crossover on the bass. That gets the job done to my satisfaction. Tight fisted, clean, dynamic as all h**l. In a word: realistic bass from guitar to organ to kick drum. And, if you push it hard - good for parlor tricks too... if you dont open the doors and windows, it will blow out a candle from 12 feet and press your pants while you are still in them
Wretched excess is just right when it comes to bass. -RNM
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OK. I guess worst case you'd need about 9 amps for this driver. That's 600W into 7 ohms.
I'll have to read IEC 18.2 to know more about that. Figure that up in Joules to see what your power supply needs to store. Leave headroom for a reactive load if you really want to push 600W into this driver short term.
I'll have to read IEC 18.2 to know more about that. Figure that up in Joules to see what your power supply needs to store. Leave headroom for a reactive load if you really want to push 600W into this driver short term.
In the end the description "tight" is a subjective one and exactly what it is as you can see has many interpretations.
The nearest thing to what you describe is a punch peak, many describe this as being "tight", it is designed specifically to excite chest resonances, and if by tightness you mean the sort of stuff you hear in disco systems then this is it.
rcw
The nearest thing to what you describe is a punch peak, many describe this as being "tight", it is designed specifically to excite chest resonances, and if by tightness you mean the sort of stuff you hear in disco systems then this is it.
rcw
Yes chest punch is a peak centered in the 60-80Hz. region.
A lot of people refuse to believe this because they expected it to be lower, but in fact the physical sensation of an octave lower than this is gut resonance and not chest resonance.
Chest resonance is used because it is simpler and cheaper to do than trying for the lowest octave, and in most music that is pointless because there is no content there anyway.
The advent of the c.d. enabled much more low bass content, and with high power now being cheap the extra low octave has become easier to do, but most d.j. type systems don't have it because that extra last octave costs a disproportionate amount of money space etc. and most people don't hear it.
rcw
A lot of people refuse to believe this because they expected it to be lower, but in fact the physical sensation of an octave lower than this is gut resonance and not chest resonance.
Chest resonance is used because it is simpler and cheaper to do than trying for the lowest octave, and in most music that is pointless because there is no content there anyway.
The advent of the c.d. enabled much more low bass content, and with high power now being cheap the extra low octave has become easier to do, but most d.j. type systems don't have it because that extra last octave costs a disproportionate amount of money space etc. and most people don't hear it.
rcw
I may be mistaken, but I reached the conclusion a while back, that "Iron Fist Bass" is his notion of mid-bass punch, nothing more (or less).
It's not real, or deep, bass that he seems to be referring to, given a tendancy to persist in mentioning "fast bass."
Best Regards,
TerryO
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Posted bellow is a diagram of the principal body resonances.
Notice the chest resonant region, this is the region that is resonated for disco d.j. rock n' roll, and most readily available popular p.a. type drivers are optimised for it.
As you can see the gut resonance effect is coupled by the arms and the legs to the body cavity.
rcw
Notice the chest resonant region, this is the region that is resonated for disco d.j. rock n' roll, and most readily available popular p.a. type drivers are optimised for it.
As you can see the gut resonance effect is coupled by the arms and the legs to the body cavity.
rcw
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I don't get this, this would just make me feel nauseous, what's this got to do with real bass? True low end bass is a subterranean rumble, like feeling a train approaching through your feet; or a big pipe of an organ moving the space in a cathedral.
Fist bass to me is the vicious "kick" you register if some one gives a real bass drum a hefty pump when you're just a few feet away. And, again, this is treble, and amp power supply working properly to get this right ...
Frank
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