Yeah but ansi is measured on a 1:1 gain screen at a certain size, its different from lumen output like a light bulb.
Not from what ive read, but they could be wrong also, normally its measured on a source with specific ratings to get the max contrast, brightness out of the projector at a default setting level.
Not from what ive seen, normally you have a economy mode and a high made that gives you the full power output on high and half or 3/4 on economy. All projectors loose light when watching a movie, it also depends on the movie, some are darker then others, cartoons are always brighter then normal photographic films. Thats because also colouring, a cartoon uses simple colours where the movie has colours ditherd and have u not, and thats one of the main reasons why a 3lcd projector is brighter compared to a single. Because each colour is a layer rather then 3 sub pixels mixing a colour on a single lcd panel.
Trev
You know, I was just about to argue with that and say that we can project dark grey, then I thought we can't actually, all we can do is project a small amount of light so it appears grey, and with black the panel blocks as much light as possible to make it appear black, this is the reason the projecction is better with no ambient light, because then the screen is actually black with no light on it, meaning the black appears much better, because all it really is is the colour of your screen with no light on it. But the panels do not completely block the light, so this is why we want higher contrast ratios.
ace3000_1 said:
Really?
http://www.barco.com/projection_systems/customer_services/advice.asp
According to this page, the ANSI lumen rating is calculated as the average amount of light hitting the screen at 9 points (measured in lux), multiplied by the area of the screen, when displaying a 100% white test signal.
The size and gain of the screen shouldn't matter, except for slight errors from light reflecting off the screen and the walls of the room and things like that...
If you have a souce which explains the process in more detail, I'd love to see it.
Here's 1
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1645.9/
Yess again i see a white signal, ill try to find the link when i have time about the measuring of the ansi with source signals with the corelated screen size thats a standard in the industry, maybe the site that has this is wrong that i read a while ago,( i doubt it). Eitherway, dont expect a 1k lumen ansi projector to project a film type movie at its 1k spec, as it wont.
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1645.2/
The other site im refering to with the screen size that the light is measured too is in here cos i posted it, just a matter of finding it.
Trev
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1645.9/
Yess again i see a white signal, ill try to find the link when i have time about the measuring of the ansi with source signals with the corelated screen size thats a standard in the industry, maybe the site that has this is wrong that i read a while ago,( i doubt it). Eitherway, dont expect a 1k lumen ansi projector to project a film type movie at its 1k spec, as it wont.
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1645.2/
The other site im refering to with the screen size that the light is measured too is in here cos i posted it, just a matter of finding it.
Trev
I think it´s pretty obvious that the screen size don´t have any influence on the ANSI-lumen value. By measure every point, 9 of them, with a calibrated lux-meter, sum up them and then divide with 9. The value you get is then multipied with the screensize in squaremeters which give ANSI-lumen. If you think logical: large screen give smaller lux-value but large screen also give more squaremeters so these value will take out each others. The link Cyr posted illustrate it excellent.
All or most retail projectors have a menu there you can change in what purpose you are going to use the projector. On a lcd-projector they boost the green color in presentation or game mode, in the movie mode they try to get the best color and contrast which give a little darker picture, but the difference is almost not noticeable. In a dlp-projector Infocus X1 for an example, the colorwheel has 4 color segment, one of those segment has white color, this white color segment is only used in presentation mode, when you switch to the movie mode they don´t use this segment because it give wrong colors, obvious this give less brightness.
Yes that is also what I have read, I don´t know why they do that, but I can imagine me it´s because most people use that size on the screen home and at presentations.
All or most retail projectors have a menu there you can change in what purpose you are going to use the projector. On a lcd-projector they boost the green color in presentation or game mode, in the movie mode they try to get the best color and contrast which give a little darker picture, but the difference is almost not noticeable. In a dlp-projector Infocus X1 for an example, the colorwheel has 4 color segment, one of those segment has white color, this white color segment is only used in presentation mode, when you switch to the movie mode they don´t use this segment because it give wrong colors, obvious this give less brightness.
ok mathis thank you for practicly avoiding my question you said your self you can display a watchable image in daylight with a 1000lm projector corect? by dailight you meant with ambient light in the room and i agree on that
now heres a pic of a 250w projector with a 15" single lcd displayed on a windowshade in my basement with the sun flaring in the window and i must say its completely watchable, now would it be safe to say this puppy is pumping out around 500lm? i would say so
but my point is just because you couldnt get 500lm out of a 250w dosent mean someone else couldnt and you cannot go around telling ppl things like that like its a fact
i mean cmon you your self stated you couldnt get rid of the fresnel rings on your image and i quote--->
all you have to do is move the fresnel further from the lcd you cannot tell me all the ppl in here using diy projectors have fresnel rings on their image if they did diy would be no more
next thing i want to say is your little coment about putting the image out of focus is just as bad as the screendoor itself theres no way i could put windows out of focus and still enjoy my projector cmon everyone is not watching tenis matches with their projectors so that focus thing just dosent work sorry
i seen your comparison pictures in your other thread and i must say if i had results like that i too would have given up on diy myself so i dont blame you for going to the comercial projectors for help lol
and i personaly think all this crap about lumens is just that CRAP
if you build a projector and you like the image it displays in the envroment your in who the ******* cares what the lumen speck is i mean cmon realy is it gonna make your projector any brighter
get a damn lux meter and be done with it if your so concerned about it
now heres a pic of a 250w projector with a 15" single lcd displayed on a windowshade in my basement with the sun flaring in the window and i must say its completely watchable, now would it be safe to say this puppy is pumping out around 500lm? i would say so
but my point is just because you couldnt get 500lm out of a 250w dosent mean someone else couldnt and you cannot go around telling ppl things like that like its a fact
i mean cmon you your self stated you couldnt get rid of the fresnel rings on your image and i quote--->
mathias said:
all you have to do is move the fresnel further from the lcd you cannot tell me all the ppl in here using diy projectors have fresnel rings on their image if they did diy would be no more
next thing i want to say is your little coment about putting the image out of focus is just as bad as the screendoor itself theres no way i could put windows out of focus and still enjoy my projector cmon everyone is not watching tenis matches with their projectors so that focus thing just dosent work sorry
i seen your comparison pictures in your other thread and i must say if i had results like that i too would have given up on diy myself so i dont blame you for going to the comercial projectors for help lol
and i personaly think all this crap about lumens is just that CRAP
if you build a projector and you like the image it displays in the envroment your in who the ******* cares what the lumen speck is i mean cmon realy is it gonna make your projector any brighter
get a damn lux meter and be done with it if your so concerned about it
Attachments
Yea, How are you going to get more ? The only reason I say that is because the single tft-panel DIY use can´t let through more light. How do you mean someone else can change that ?
Don´t you think I have tried that ? The fresnel has been in front of the lcd and behind the lcd also splitted 1" or 2" away from the lcd. It´s maybe the ring pitch that are too low, you tell me ?
That was the most stupid comment, I have heard. Do you want me to say the same about your pictures ? You have absolute no idea what you are talkning about ! Those picture was only a brightness comparison and has nothing to do with my finally diy-result. Those picture was taken when I was experimenting with the PAR30 reflector. I have build diy-projectors now in 3-4 years time and sometimes 24h a day, so please spare me your stupid comments.
You maybe do that.....
Do you think I do that when I use it with a computer ? I don´t think so, I don´t care about the screendoor when I show Windows, the sharper the better. This little trick is of course best when you watch movie, you get a softer crossing between the pixels, like in a cinema, and you can only do this on a commercialprojector which don´t have sub-pixels like a diy-pj. Anyway I don´t need to use the trick, because I can´t see any screendoor effect, depending on that I follow the THX recommendation.
I tried to answer your question, but it seems like I missunderstood you. Why you maybe need 1000 ansi lumen with a 100" screen in a room with daylight and it has nothing to do with it´s watchable. It has to do with the contrast. If you are going to see the whole contrast range, from the darkest to the brightest in a picture you need of course a brighter projector, the almost darkest level in the picture need more light than the surrounding light to be visible. The screen size have a big influence of how bright projector you need, 60-70" and you maybe only need 500 ansi.
About all the picture you are posting, I haven´t comment any of them because, they don´t contain any information. the screen size, the screen gain, surrounding light and the camera all this have very big influence on how a picture look like, and it´s impossible to know if you can see all the contrast levels in a daylight picture. If you want to show a picture that mean something you must have something to compare with both the size and the light level, for instance a computermonitor.
Hello i was reading this thread and i noticed that there was a lot of talk about UHP bulbs..
well i have one here with me from a projector with about 6000hours left and i'd like to know how to power up it.
This was from a projector and i have the board that plug to the bulb and also the power suply board but i can't power it up now that i open the projector and unplugged everything
well i believe that i need the bulb the board from the bulb and something else.. but what is something else? i just need to give power to the board?
if possible any help would be apreciated.
here is a picture of the bulb and the board
the board only had 2 cables.. one goes to the power board and the other goes to "small signal board" (that's what is writen on the board
)
well i have one here with me from a projector with about 6000hours left and i'd like to know how to power up it.
This was from a projector and i have the board that plug to the bulb and also the power suply board but i can't power it up now that i open the projector and unplugged everything
well i believe that i need the bulb the board from the bulb and something else.. but what is something else? i just need to give power to the board?
if possible any help would be apreciated.
here is a picture of the bulb and the board
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
the board only had 2 cables.. one goes to the power board and the other goes to "small signal board" (that's what is writen on the board
)
I did a search on 3 panel lcd to see if anyone had found a good source for them. Came across this thread. WOW! What a cat fight! Hope u all had a few pints together after.
Anyway the reason Im looking for this, and the purpose of the original thread I think, was to see why they bother with 3 panels in the commercial units. You get much better colours with the 3 panel method. Better than DLP.
Pros
1)The single colour panel can do more gradients of that colour.
2)The colour is superimposed over the other colour (not side by side) so you get a better tone
3)The colour pixel is a larger % of the individual unit (bad description) so more coloured light gets through. Many people add lumens to a regular lcd to deal with the small pixels and the colour tone/ vibrancy is washed out.
Cons
1) colour fades over time
2) very small LCDs have big boundaries between pixels with the much higher magnification.
So
I want to make a 3 panel unit with 3 coloured panels greater than 1". I'd like 6" panels. This would have no screen door.
Anyone know where I can get something like that? I went to a big manufacturer and they will play if i want to buy 1000 at a time. lol
Anyway the reason Im looking for this, and the purpose of the original thread I think, was to see why they bother with 3 panels in the commercial units. You get much better colours with the 3 panel method. Better than DLP.
Pros
1)The single colour panel can do more gradients of that colour.
2)The colour is superimposed over the other colour (not side by side) so you get a better tone
3)The colour pixel is a larger % of the individual unit (bad description) so more coloured light gets through. Many people add lumens to a regular lcd to deal with the small pixels and the colour tone/ vibrancy is washed out.
Cons
1) colour fades over time
2) very small LCDs have big boundaries between pixels with the much higher magnification.
So
I want to make a 3 panel unit with 3 coloured panels greater than 1". I'd like 6" panels. This would have no screen door.
Anyone know where I can get something like that? I went to a big manufacturer and they will play if i want to buy 1000 at a time. lol
Hey Me2...
If I am miss reading your post then I appologize but I believe the screen door is decreased when you use a LCD with a higher fill factor % talked about in post #56. The benefit of a three LCD setup is greater color saturation and increased contrast. I dont believe using three seperate LCD's will solve the screen door issue.
Zaner21
If I am miss reading your post then I appologize but I believe the screen door is decreased when you use a LCD with a higher fill factor % talked about in post #56. The benefit of a three LCD setup is greater color saturation and increased contrast. I dont believe using three seperate LCD's will solve the screen door issue.
Zaner21
Not sure what you mean.
The screen door 'factor' is really from the size of the pixel relative to the image.
If you look at the commercial lcd projectors, especially the typical 800x600, you see significant screen door. They use small 3-4cm lcds.
If you look at our projectors with a 15" screen the pixel boundaries are very small. Im using a 5ft Apollo screen and I have to get fairly close to see the pixel squares. Thats not because its fuzzy, the squares are quite distinct, but relative to the screen size they are very thin.
Put it another way:
a ~.25mm pixel boundary on a 4cm lcd magnified 30x is much thicker than a~.25mm pixel boundary on a 300mm lcd magnified 6x.
The screen door 'factor' is really from the size of the pixel relative to the image.
If you look at the commercial lcd projectors, especially the typical 800x600, you see significant screen door. They use small 3-4cm lcds.
If you look at our projectors with a 15" screen the pixel boundaries are very small. Im using a 5ft Apollo screen and I have to get fairly close to see the pixel squares. Thats not because its fuzzy, the squares are quite distinct, but relative to the screen size they are very thin.
Put it another way:
a ~.25mm pixel boundary on a 4cm lcd magnified 30x is much thicker than a~.25mm pixel boundary on a 300mm lcd magnified 6x.
Another benefit to the 3 LCD setup (this was documented on the Panasonic AE700), is that you can offset the LCD's by a small fraction of a pixel, and thus eliminate screendoor almost altogether, because there's always at least one LCD's output covering up the border of all of the borders.
I think this would make an interesting project for a 7" lilliput or similar... build a projector with three of them, combine w/ slight offset, and feed each panel a primary color only... not sure how you would feed, you'd need sync on each of the colors, so you'd need to build a small eleconitrc board to add this to each of the three colors from a VGA breakout cable.
If you can do that and make it work, you could hide the screendoor to a certain extent.
I think this would make an interesting project for a 7" lilliput or similar... build a projector with three of them, combine w/ slight offset, and feed each panel a primary color only... not sure how you would feed, you'd need sync on each of the colors, so you'd need to build a small eleconitrc board to add this to each of the three colors from a VGA breakout cable.
If you can do that and make it work, you could hide the screendoor to a certain extent.
ShagMan said:
if i feed with one color the lcd, i have black/white image shown on the lcd (well, it is not black/white source but red source for instance but the image on the lcd will be black/white because the 3 colors will light all at once. Then i have 3 black/white panels (1 working with the red component, other with green and one with blue, but all will show black/white image) then i guess you would filters each lcd with the corresponding color filter (red filter for the red signal feeded black/white displaiyng lcd... and so on with green and blue)
Well this is a waste of light. The manin advantage of 3 panels is that there is more light on the output, but if you need to filter the image with color layers, you are lossing lot of light (you are lossing the same amount of light that you are triyng to win)
so if you need 3 panles, they must be monocromatic (black/white native)
if you have 3 lillis, then the only way making it work is make 3 identical diyprojectors and project them all at once on the same screen, this will give you 3 times brighter projector.
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