Try cost, also they are custom made for each projector design, no 2 projectors use the same bulb design unless its a joint venture company that has 2 name brands on the same projector.
Thats also information available on the net.
Why arent they used in other aplications such as shop lighting? well would you fork out $300+ per bulb every 3khrs to light up your shop? i dont think so
I might add also that the lattest bulbs are actually high pressure mercury.
Again information on the net.
To be quite honest, i dont care what pro projectors use, im more worried about what im going to use for the one's i make. But it is a fact, pro projectors bulbs are brighter then what we use, you just need to search the net and read the information on them.
About the brightness of the UHP-lamp, I have written this before, a 120W UHP give 7000 lm, most projectors today use 130-150W UHP, with my calculation these give about 9000lm. When you read about UHP-lamps they always write that the UHP-arc is more intensive than HQI, but of course it´s more intensive when the arc is 9 times smaller than a HQI-arc, but we are talking about the total lumens output and here the HQI-lamp is brighter.
When we are talking about the cost of UHP-lamp it depends on what country you live in, here in Sweden a 150W Hitachi UHP spare lamp cost the same as a MSD 250W or a 150W HTI-lamp.
It´s very easy to se how bright a single panel tft projector is, it´s just to search on www.projectorcentral.com after a single-panel tft projector. Here are some examples:
ASK IMPRESSION 1280 Panel: 13" TFT Lamp: 575W MH Brightness: 450 Ansi
ASK IMPRESSION 860 Panel: 13" TFT Lamp: 575W MH Brightness: 500 Ansi
ASK IMPRESSION 880 Panel: 13" TFT Lamp: 575W MH Brightness: 350 Ansi
Hesta Dynavisio 2000 Panel: 6.4" TFT Lamp: 575W MH Brightness: 680 Ansi
Optoma EzPro 540 Panel: 6.4" TFT Lamp: 330W MH Brightness: 500 Ansi
Optoma EzPro 585 Panel: 6.4" TFT Lamp: 330W MH Brightness: 500 Ansi
Why do you think that a diy-projector will be brighter with a less powerfull lamp ?
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector-lamps-faq.cfm
When we are talking about the cost of UHP-lamp it depends on what country you live in, here in Sweden a 150W Hitachi UHP spare lamp cost the same as a MSD 250W or a 150W HTI-lamp.
It´s very easy to se how bright a single panel tft projector is, it´s just to search on www.projectorcentral.com after a single-panel tft projector. Here are some examples:
ASK IMPRESSION 1280 Panel: 13" TFT Lamp: 575W MH Brightness: 450 Ansi
ASK IMPRESSION 860 Panel: 13" TFT Lamp: 575W MH Brightness: 500 Ansi
ASK IMPRESSION 880 Panel: 13" TFT Lamp: 575W MH Brightness: 350 Ansi
Hesta Dynavisio 2000 Panel: 6.4" TFT Lamp: 575W MH Brightness: 680 Ansi
Optoma EzPro 540 Panel: 6.4" TFT Lamp: 330W MH Brightness: 500 Ansi
Optoma EzPro 585 Panel: 6.4" TFT Lamp: 330W MH Brightness: 500 Ansi
Why do you think that a diy-projector will be brighter with a less powerfull lamp ?
All UHP-lamps are "high pressure mercury" and has always been.
It´s good custom to write out sources when you apply a text from somwhere else, or chances are big that it will easily be misstaken for your own words.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector-lamps-faq.cfm
Ace, you keep telling me to do some reading... from what I can see your the one who has to keep that trap of yours shut long enough to read up some!
The small arcs have NOTHING to do with small reflectors! The reflector you have to use in any given optical system DEPENDS on the arc size of the bulb... not the other way around. So since they need small arcs for small LCD's, obviously they will use small reflectors!
And you cant go by the listing on projector central to see how bright a diy unit will be. The final brightness depends on many factors. Lamp, optics, panel type... they arent all standard. If they were... then your chart of brightness would hold true. But as we've seen on the boards not all TFT's allow the same light throughput, not all optics are as bright and not all projection lenses are created equal.
www.diybuildergroup.com
JCB
The small arcs have NOTHING to do with small reflectors! The reflector you have to use in any given optical system DEPENDS on the arc size of the bulb... not the other way around. So since they need small arcs for small LCD's, obviously they will use small reflectors!
And you cant go by the listing on projector central to see how bright a diy unit will be. The final brightness depends on many factors. Lamp, optics, panel type... they arent all standard. If they were... then your chart of brightness would hold true. But as we've seen on the boards not all TFT's allow the same light throughput, not all optics are as bright and not all projection lenses are created equal.
www.diybuildergroup.com
JCB
I actually only posted that up by copying and pasting because that page was miles long and would have taken you forever to read it.
Mathias, not all bulbs are dimmer, keep reading around, sure there are some out there that are, also remeber a dlp bulb is always dimmer than an lcd porojectors bulb because they need less light, your talking about the latter projector bulbs typically used on the new platforms, im talking 260w and up projector bulbs and they are brighter, older 1-3year variety, that are still in use today, also dont mixe up a dlp's projector bulb with an lcd projectors bulb, they are not the same.
eherm again!
A UHP (Ultra High Performance) lamp is a proprietary design of Metal Halide lamp manufactured by Philips that requires lower wattage for equivalent brightness.
hi mathias,
i think your spot on on the lumen output of most of the diy projectors.
there is a lot of talk about these diy projectors using 400w mogul based
large arc bulbs, putting out 1000-1200 lumens. i just don't think so.
your links to other single panel projectors is spot on. using 575w hmi's
in very good reflector condenser setups, yeilds 400-500 ansi. with the
best optics, say barco quality, 3-4" clear diameter 8lb lens, the best optics,
using a 575w se maybe 700+ lumens.
if anything, your average diy uses much much worse optics, $30
triplet, crude reflector, 25mm arc or larger, etc. i would bet most people
are getting 250 lumens with crude setup, maybe 300-400 with the best.
yes, some panels are a little more transmissive than others. but most monitors
are pretty bad in general, my cmv is no exception.
i will be doing some comparisons between the 575w hmi's, and large arc
ushio 400w metal halides i would be very happy if i can get 500-600 lumens.
one still has to remember that 300-400 lumens in a dark room will allow
a very large screen.
i think your spot on on the lumen output of most of the diy projectors.
there is a lot of talk about these diy projectors using 400w mogul based
large arc bulbs, putting out 1000-1200 lumens. i just don't think so.
your links to other single panel projectors is spot on. using 575w hmi's
in very good reflector condenser setups, yeilds 400-500 ansi. with the
best optics, say barco quality, 3-4" clear diameter 8lb lens, the best optics,
using a 575w se maybe 700+ lumens.
if anything, your average diy uses much much worse optics, $30
triplet, crude reflector, 25mm arc or larger, etc. i would bet most people
are getting 250 lumens with crude setup, maybe 300-400 with the best.
yes, some panels are a little more transmissive than others. but most monitors
are pretty bad in general, my cmv is no exception.
i will be doing some comparisons between the 575w hmi's, and large arc
ushio 400w metal halides i would be very happy if i can get 500-600 lumens.
one still has to remember that 300-400 lumens in a dark room will allow
a very large screen.
Trev, I don´t know why you are writing this there is no point with it ? UHP is a shortening of "Ultra high pressure mercury arc" and has been since Philips invented it.
What are you talking about, dimmer ? It´s the same type of lamp in a lcd and a dlp-projector the only diffrents is the reflector, Par or Eliptical type. But the dlp-projectors usually give more ansi lumens out, (when they are not used in the movie mode). Most new projectors have a wisper mode, which run the lamp on a lower power, and makes the projector more silent, but the brightness also gets lower.
I have already written all about UHP,UHM and VIP-lamps in an other thread, please read that thread, or do I need to write all that again ?
Whats the link? i never saw it.
My last words
http://www.epinions.com/offc-Access...AMP_EZPRO_585_330W_UHP_METAL_HALIDE?sp=iother
http://www.uhtx.com/high_output_spare_replacement_lamps.html
UHP+ is Ultra high Pressure mercury
UHP is Ultra high performance metal halide
Imo if you look at enough sites, one site says one thing while the other says another, the only way to get the facts is to contact the manufactures. I contacted one last year in India, mikkinner can back me up on this, why dont i have the link? well i do but its now a dead link.
And thats where i found out projector bulbs are brighter then what we use (obviously not in all cases), direct from a company who specilises and makes them.
Bottom line is I dont care what anyone TOLD you. SIDE BY SIDE 2000-2500 ansi lumens commercial units ARE NOT TWICE AS BRIGHT as my DIY unit. And thats that! Again, your talking about info for single panel COMMERCIAL UNITS not single panel DIY units. Since no one has done a study of DIY units you cant use commercial numbers! By your statement the commercial unit should be 3 times brighter then mine! Well... I hate to break it to everyone, but it's not! Not by a longshot!
So you all can talk about it as much as you'd like guessing and calling companies. Put units SIDE BY SIDE and see for yourself. Then come back to me.
www.diybuildergroup.com
JCB
So you all can talk about it as much as you'd like guessing and calling companies. Put units SIDE BY SIDE and see for yourself. Then come back to me.
www.diybuildergroup.com
JCB
I think there is much more
behind the lumen than jcbklyny or anybody else is trying to tell us.
if you compare 2 loa's like my first 3 projectors had in them, they produced more than 10k lumens, hoewver they could only be seen when the room was almost completely dark. It did work however!!!!
I had a Toshiba projector for a couple of days, with 700 lumen specs, and guess what, I could see the picture in house in broad daylight....
better than a panel with a 4000 lumen ohp...
My idea is that the production specs of lumen are given when measured with certain parameters and these parameters are not always the same in this type of industry.
Still a long way to go for these gentlemen to implement an ISO 900X standard .....
I think that a lot of times lumen figures are given like watts pmpo ... and other times as watts rms etc etc.....
J-P.
behind the lumen than jcbklyny or anybody else is trying to tell us.
if you compare 2 loa's like my first 3 projectors had in them, they produced more than 10k lumens, hoewver they could only be seen when the room was almost completely dark. It did work however!!!!
I had a Toshiba projector for a couple of days, with 700 lumen specs, and guess what, I could see the picture in house in broad daylight....
better than a panel with a 4000 lumen ohp...
My idea is that the production specs of lumen are given when measured with certain parameters and these parameters are not always the same in this type of industry.
Still a long way to go for these gentlemen to implement an ISO 900X standard .....
I think that a lot of times lumen figures are given like watts pmpo ... and other times as watts rms etc etc.....
J-P.
jcbklyny, i'm not sure to whom jcbklyny's last comment was? but my frame of reference
was comparing the my diy cmv 15" lcd with 250w mh and 575w hmi, to commercial
projectors with 300 and 500 lumens side by side. no one told me anything. i'm
not guessing?
i'm not sure why you are yelling. we are all here to have intelligent discussion
on what kind of brightness can one expect out of a diy projector with a 400w
large arc bulb. when i complete my cruser style 17" with 400w lamp, i will then
put that one next to commercial projectors and let you know the results. i expect it
to be 500 lumens, if it's 1500 great, fantastic.
as far as projectors appearing twice or three times the brightness of one another.
i have never found it to be a nice linear scale like you propose, a 1400 lumen projector
doesn't look twice as bright to me in a semi-lit room as 700 lumen. it tends to look a bit brighter.
i wouldn't find a 1500 lumen projector looks 3x brighter than a 500 lumen one. but
this kind of ranking is all subjective, and i don't use terms like this.
i and others are speculating - guessing on what we think is possible in light output, based on
personal projects and commercial projectors. why can't we speculate by looking at commercial units?
what is not valid about that? i would consider a barco 10" single panel lcd projector, a best case reference.
i know i can't improve upon their light engine at all. i don't think todays monitor single panel lcd's are
so much more transmissive to allow doubling the light output, etc, etc. so i would not expect to
improve upon its brightness at all..note just my opinion based on wild speculation.
that doesn't mean i won't build a DIY 400w projector test it and compare. all the best tony.
was comparing the my diy cmv 15" lcd with 250w mh and 575w hmi, to commercial
projectors with 300 and 500 lumens side by side. no one told me anything. i'm
not guessing?
i'm not sure why you are yelling. we are all here to have intelligent discussion
on what kind of brightness can one expect out of a diy projector with a 400w
large arc bulb. when i complete my cruser style 17" with 400w lamp, i will then
put that one next to commercial projectors and let you know the results. i expect it
to be 500 lumens, if it's 1500 great, fantastic.
as far as projectors appearing twice or three times the brightness of one another.
i have never found it to be a nice linear scale like you propose, a 1400 lumen projector
doesn't look twice as bright to me in a semi-lit room as 700 lumen. it tends to look a bit brighter.
i wouldn't find a 1500 lumen projector looks 3x brighter than a 500 lumen one. but
this kind of ranking is all subjective, and i don't use terms like this.
i and others are speculating - guessing on what we think is possible in light output, based on
personal projects and commercial projectors. why can't we speculate by looking at commercial units?
what is not valid about that? i would consider a barco 10" single panel lcd projector, a best case reference.
i know i can't improve upon their light engine at all. i don't think todays monitor single panel lcd's are
so much more transmissive to allow doubling the light output, etc, etc. so i would not expect to
improve upon its brightness at all..note just my opinion based on wild speculation.
that doesn't mean i won't build a DIY 400w projector test it and compare. all the best tony.
Perceived brightness vs. actual light (lumens) is not a linear scale. It's a bit like sound pressure, twice the watts does not mean twice as loud!
The best way to settle this is obviously to measure it. How hard would it really be to make a light meter? Maybe hook up a LDR resistor to a multimeter and calculate the light flux from the graphs in the data sheet?
It may not be perfectly accurate, but at least give a rough estimate...
The best way to settle this is obviously to measure it. How hard would it really be to make a light meter? Maybe hook up a LDR resistor to a multimeter and calculate the light flux from the graphs in the data sheet?
It may not be perfectly accurate, but at least give a rough estimate...
I don't see the any argument here,"If you cant measure the actual lumen output on the screen theres no argument".
Sure you can guess and guess all you want
I for one can not claim any brightness spec on the pj's i built i cant say their 500lm or 700lm or 10,000lm cause i just dont know.
What i can say is for the money spent on these projectors its completely acceptable no matter what the lm output is ,like tony dean stated if its 1500lm GREAT but dont expect it to be.
I have ran a few of the projectors i built in the daytime with lights on what ever the image is watchable but in complete darkness is where it realy shines as with any projector!
you have to remember these diy projectors can be built for as little as $300 for an xga unit with bulbs costing pennys per day/or even weeks to run how can you even compare that to a comercial unit. if i had a comercial pj it would be in the closet after the bulb went no way im gonna spend $300+ on a bulb lol you gotta be kidding me just my 2 cents
I took a walk thru comp usa over the weekend they had 3 porjectors on display and several high def tv's ranging from $900-$11,000 and with all honesty "may the lord strike me down" there was nothing that could compare to the quality of the 17.3" diy projector i just built for under $1000 and my buddy is viewing it at 11 feet diagonal with a very big smile might i add
Sure you can guess and guess all you want
I for one can not claim any brightness spec on the pj's i built i cant say their 500lm or 700lm or 10,000lm cause i just dont know.
What i can say is for the money spent on these projectors its completely acceptable no matter what the lm output is ,like tony dean stated if its 1500lm GREAT but dont expect it to be.
I have ran a few of the projectors i built in the daytime with lights on what ever the image is watchable but in complete darkness is where it realy shines as with any projector!
you have to remember these diy projectors can be built for as little as $300 for an xga unit with bulbs costing pennys per day/or even weeks to run how can you even compare that to a comercial unit. if i had a comercial pj it would be in the closet after the bulb went no way im gonna spend $300+ on a bulb lol you gotta be kidding me just my 2 cents
I took a walk thru comp usa over the weekend they had 3 porjectors on display and several high def tv's ranging from $900-$11,000 and with all honesty "may the lord strike me down" there was nothing that could compare to the quality of the 17.3" diy projector i just built for under $1000 and my buddy is viewing it at 11 feet diagonal with a very big smile might i add
To get back to the topic, the expensive thing in a commercialprojector is the UHP-lamp, in fact the lamp is worth the half of the price of the projector, which makes the other parts in the projector dirt cheap. Today you can buy a new commercialprojector for the price of two 15" tft monitors, the half of the price is for the UHP-lamp, so all the other parts in the projector is worth what a 15" tft monitor cost. So for the cost of a 15" tft monitor you get: 3 polysilicon-tft panels,prism,mirrors,fans,powersupply,uhp-ballast,comp and S-video to vga converter,very high quality objectlenses,remotecontrol,dustfilter and many many more things. Can you build a cheaper diy-projector than a 15" tft monitor ?
The nice thing with a diy-projector is that you can get higher resolution very cheap, but this also makes the projector damn big. In my diy-projector I had problem with interference between the fresnell rings and the tft-pixels, which did the higher resolution pointless. The lower brightness on a diy-projector is no problem if you use it in a darkroom, 200 ansi lumen is enough for a 100" picture.
I do self prefer lower resolution but much better colors and a much brighter picture over higher resolution, less bright picture and bigger case, but this is just my taste.
Well said Cruser, and your exactly right, even if we had a light meter there would still be obsticles, such as colour temp for one, cri, the gain on the screen, the source signal strength (which in some cases is measured), and all projectors have different default contrast and brightness levels. I havnt seen any companies specify what screen they use on a pro projector when testing for its lumen output, most dont give that info away, and if you read the reveiws on pro projectors, most dont hit their mark on their lumen output.
Lumens dont matter anyway, its just a strength in how bright the projector is vs ambient light veiwing, as mathias said in his last post, 200lm is fine for night time veiwing, 500lm is about right for me for night time, even with a light on 500lm is enough, asoon as you go over 700lm the image is getting too bright for night time veiwing and in most cases, anything over 1k lumen is too bright for a dark room, manny people actually buy seperate filters to cut their light output down so its not so hard on the eyes, also you can get whats called screen hotspot reflection over 1k lumen.
So realy the lumens dont matter, aslong as your image has the right colouring, contrast and brightness, daytime pictures look like daytime ect, who realy cares what lumen count your projector is, there is no competition.
just thaught i would put a few pics up for ppl to look at ,believe me the pictures do it no justice you have to see it with your own eyes
i have never built a projector with less than xga res because once i seen how pixelated 1024X768 was there was no point to go any lower and the box size is a non isue
are you gonna sit there and stare at the projector or the screen?
the only thing i disliked about the comercial pj's i saw at comp usa "becides the bulb price" was the screen door it could be as bright as the sun for all i care if i see the screen door its sad!!!bottom line and oh yeah i saw it bigtime
and if i have to sit 15 feet away so i dont see it ITS PROJECT FAILED!!! mathis once you see a corectly set up diy projector with your own eyes i guaranty your story changes you wont even be able to say low res again
one more thing you can get 15"lcd's for $200..so where can i get a new 3 lcd projector for $400? or $500 or even $800 cmon dude
i have never built a projector with less than xga res because once i seen how pixelated 1024X768 was there was no point to go any lower and the box size is a non isue
are you gonna sit there and stare at the projector or the screen?
the only thing i disliked about the comercial pj's i saw at comp usa "becides the bulb price" was the screen door it could be as bright as the sun for all i care if i see the screen door its sad!!!bottom line and oh yeah i saw it bigtime
and if i have to sit 15 feet away so i dont see it ITS PROJECT FAILED!!! mathis once you see a corectly set up diy projector with your own eyes i guaranty your story changes you wont even be able to say low res again
one more thing you can get 15"lcd's for $200..so where can i get a new 3 lcd projector for $400? or $500 or even $800 cmon dude
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After what I have read in this forum I think people have missunderstood some basic things about projectors. 800*600 resolution is enough for most people, DVD don´t use higher resolution yet. Yea, it´s so very cool to enlarge a picture to 100-150" and sit 100" away from the picture ! This is the most common fault new projector owner do ! There is a simple rule, I think it´s from THX, the picture width should be the half of the distance between you and the screen. Use this rule and then comeback and say that you see screendoor.
I totally agree with you when you say where are more screendoor on a 800*600 commercialprojector than a 1024*768 diy projector, but with right distance to the screen, you can´t see the differance between them.
The box size is a big isue for many people, most people want to hide the projector in one way or other.
You can easy get a new projector for the price of two 15" tft monitors, I don´t mean the cheapest one, I mean an ordinary one. With new projector I mean older models from 2003 that they sell out cheap.
I totally agree with you when you say where are more screendoor on a 800*600 commercialprojector than a 1024*768 diy projector, but with right distance to the screen, you can´t see the differance between them.
The box size is a big isue for many people, most people want to hide the projector in one way or other.
You can easy get a new projector for the price of two 15" tft monitors, I don´t mean the cheapest one, I mean an ordinary one. With new projector I mean older models from 2003 that they sell out cheap.
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