The heavier thing is usually a reference to the power transformer. The good high powered ones tend to be heavy. At the same time, I've also wondered why manufacturers don't put massively heavy heatsinks in their amps (unless they have to) just to make them seem more impressive to the consumer 
Most sorround sound recievers now of days do have jiant heat sinks. I look at their small power transformers and wonder were the 500 watts comes from. I guess they are rated 500 watts but can only push about 150 all at once. Junk junk junk.
I'd say if I have my amp cranked to the point of audible distortion, 75 watt peeks, I'm only using about 5 some watts average. Hooked up to two sets of 20+ year old speakers (epi&h.h. gregg) = LOUD!
I'd say if I have my amp cranked to the point of audible distortion, 75 watt peeks, I'm only using about 5 some watts average. Hooked up to two sets of 20+ year old speakers (epi&h.h. gregg) = LOUD!
while we are on this topic i would like to know ho to convert good old fashioned RMS watts to something called "PMPO". do I multiply by 10, 20, 100? There seems to a plethora of 7000W PMPO systems in India.
funny but my 200W system seems a lot louder and I cant even get past 9 o clock position on a quiet day. By the time the volume knob is at 12 o clock it is disturbing neighbours 3 doors down.
Best way i have found so far is to invite people over with their 7000W systems (at 200kgs i am not carrying mine anywhere). Then I play a Cd on their system and ask them to shout over the music. reapet the same with my system.
what i find is that these 7000W systems sound loud because they put ot a lot of distortion. But if you shout you can hear your self. because your voice does not distort. With a good clean system that has distortion under control you dont know it is loud till you cant hear your self shout.
Also I would like to know if my system is to be rated at 200W or 400W if it is biamped and each amp is 200W rms. I claim it is 200W because the sub amp operates over only 1 octave so one can ignore its watts.
funny but my 200W system seems a lot louder and I cant even get past 9 o clock position on a quiet day. By the time the volume knob is at 12 o clock it is disturbing neighbours 3 doors down.
Best way i have found so far is to invite people over with their 7000W systems (at 200kgs i am not carrying mine anywhere). Then I play a Cd on their system and ask them to shout over the music. reapet the same with my system.
what i find is that these 7000W systems sound loud because they put ot a lot of distortion. But if you shout you can hear your self. because your voice does not distort. With a good clean system that has distortion under control you dont know it is loud till you cant hear your self shout.
Also I would like to know if my system is to be rated at 200W or 400W if it is biamped and each amp is 200W rms. I claim it is 200W because the sub amp operates over only 1 octave so one can ignore its watts.
ooheadsoo said:The heavier thing is usually a reference to the power transformer. The good high powered ones tend to be heavy. At the same time, I've also wondered why manufacturers don't put massively heavy heatsinks in their amps (unless they have to) just to make them seem more impressive to the consumer
I know that heavier usually means a beefier power supply/bigger heatsinks. Unfortunately, using "heavy" in terms of quality is a very poor measure i'd say (up there with saying 5x100watts, or 5x150w, etc, or the THD figures ..)
I always pay the extra $0.39 to upgrade to the Biggiewatt size. Sure I don't need it, but the excess makes me sleep better at night.
Like I always say if your gonna waste 5 gallons of water you may as well flush the biggest turd
Even with Saving Private Ryan very loud, I've never clipped my Monarchy Audio 35 watter on Magnepans.
Like I always say if your gonna waste 5 gallons of water you may as well flush the biggest turd
Even with Saving Private Ryan very loud, I've never clipped my Monarchy Audio 35 watter on Magnepans.
Peak Music Power Output? No way!
PMPO = (and) Pigs Might Pulverise Octopi
You see, we have have that acronym here in New Zealand too. I'm waiting until those crappy little computer speakers for sale break the One Million Watts PMPO mark. At some point I had the impression that perhaps for a fraction of a millisecond or so, many speakers could withstand something like 1000W. It wouldn't burn up the voice coil, and mechanically it might be durable enough to withstand it, but then I noticed that they sold "amplified" speakers with similar ratings, it's such BS that I just can't be bothered.
What's even dumber is the car audio faction here in NZ. They buy 10" subwoofers rated at 150W RMS, are somehow led to believe that they're actually 1000W, so they buy enormous 1000W RMS D-class blocks of metal and blow the speakers up. Some of them have these technical explanations of how inadequate grounding of the amplifier causes clipping distortion which is actually DC current which therefore cooks the VCs
, and yet the filtering action of 3.5mH means nothing to them. What fuels this belief is that even the RMS power ratings are often way too liberal and just about any old power amp could wreck some of the crap for sale here.
CM
PMPO = (and) Pigs Might Pulverise Octopi
You see, we have have that acronym here in New Zealand too. I'm waiting until those crappy little computer speakers for sale break the One Million Watts PMPO mark. At some point I had the impression that perhaps for a fraction of a millisecond or so, many speakers could withstand something like 1000W. It wouldn't burn up the voice coil, and mechanically it might be durable enough to withstand it, but then I noticed that they sold "amplified" speakers with similar ratings, it's such BS that I just can't be bothered.
What's even dumber is the car audio faction here in NZ. They buy 10" subwoofers rated at 150W RMS, are somehow led to believe that they're actually 1000W, so they buy enormous 1000W RMS D-class blocks of metal and blow the speakers up. Some of them have these technical explanations of how inadequate grounding of the amplifier causes clipping distortion which is actually DC current which therefore cooks the VCs
, and yet the filtering action of 3.5mH means nothing to them. What fuels this belief is that even the RMS power ratings are often way too liberal and just about any old power amp could wreck some of the crap for sale here.CM
Tiggerfip said:
It is very unlikely to be correct,
unless the input level is unusually low.
If zero is at full rotation the numbers refer to ~ how much
you are reducing the maximum voltage sensitivity of the
amplifier, i.e. Watts/Volt input.
To cope with low output devices typically an average amplifier
with an average input will be at full power on peaks between
around 12 and 2 oclock.
sreten.
Take a 10W+10W RMS into 8 ohm amplifier.
So its a 20W amplifier.
And 40W into 4 ohms.
Double this for music power = 80W.
Double this for PMPO = 160W.
Generally PMPO = 8 times the RMS rating.
But you have to be careful, sometimes its x 4, others x 16,
and occasionally devoid of any rational derivation.
sreten.
So its a 20W amplifier.
And 40W into 4 ohms.
Double this for music power = 80W.
Double this for PMPO = 160W.
Generally PMPO = 8 times the RMS rating.
But you have to be careful, sometimes its x 4, others x 16,
and occasionally devoid of any rational derivation.
sreten.
I would agree with phase on this, the PMPO doesnt seem to bare any resemblance to a RMS figure, at least not from one company to another.
Also take into consideration measured THD. I once saw an advertisement for a sharp mini. power output (small print bottom of ad) 10 watts RMS 10% thd. This obviously means they were quoting output whilst clipping was happening as no amp produces 10% if its not clipping. Well you could design a crap amp that would, but most of these minis use chip amps and a designer wont exactly make the chip a bad design.
Either way power outputs are completly ambiguous outside the audiophile world, everyone wanting to make their numbers BIGGER then everyone elses.
Im sure I have seem some 2watt RMS comp speakers rated at something like 1000watt PMPO, now that is BS. Well maybe an exaggeration but here is a pair in the CPC catalog 22W RMS, 2500 PMPO. Thats 113 times larger
Also take into consideration measured THD. I once saw an advertisement for a sharp mini. power output (small print bottom of ad) 10 watts RMS 10% thd. This obviously means they were quoting output whilst clipping was happening as no amp produces 10% if its not clipping. Well you could design a crap amp that would, but most of these minis use chip amps and a designer wont exactly make the chip a bad design.
Either way power outputs are completly ambiguous outside the audiophile world, everyone wanting to make their numbers BIGGER then everyone elses.
Im sure I have seem some 2watt RMS comp speakers rated at something like 1000watt PMPO, now that is BS. Well maybe an exaggeration but here is a pair in the CPC catalog 22W RMS, 2500 PMPO. Thats 113 times larger
PC speakers
Hi,
My PC speakers are 240W pmpo, but weighs about 500grams
There is a big thing in Denmark with PC speaker being rated at up to 350W for a box with a driver that has a max desplacement of less than 2 mm....???
I dont get it, is it not just a case of "mine is bigger than yours"??
\Jens
Hi,
My PC speakers are 240W pmpo, but weighs about 500grams
There is a big thing in Denmark with PC speaker being rated at up to 350W for a box with a driver that has a max desplacement of less than 2 mm....???
I dont get it, is it not just a case of "mine is bigger than yours"??
\Jens
Some newer learn
I think watt is the worst illness in audio. Watt is still volt x ampere, And it should be mesured in real playing. 8 ohm 20-20000 hz. But try telling sony and other japanese mass marked manufactures. I've got 2 x 80 but are building a new on 2 x 400. No near houses around me. So louder than hell will be my new thing for a while
I think watt is the worst illness in audio. Watt is still volt x ampere, And it should be mesured in real playing. 8 ohm 20-20000 hz. But try telling sony and other japanese mass marked manufactures. I've got 2 x 80 but are building a new on 2 x 400. No near houses around me. So louder than hell will be my new thing for a while
Agreed with a question
Here, I agree a 'bigger is better' attitude is present. I also think that efficiency is becoming more apparent than in the past decade.
On my bedroom system, with 85-ish dB speakers and a mid-90's HK home theater receiver, if I turn it down so low as to just barely hear it, I only hear the "mid" portion. A few clicks up and I hear most of the range. Many more clicks and they start to "sing." A few more and its just too loud.
Now the question: Is this a function of the speaker design (I doubt it) the amp in the receiver (still kind of doubt it) or a function of my ears? I'm guessing the last one.
Are human ears most sensitive to the ‘mids,’ the region where I guess voices are usually? I have noticed in my car that running speakers from the head unit, a similar phenomenon occurs. When running them from an external amp (no sub) it seems less. I have no idea of the actual dB we're talking, but I'd guess all are well below 75.
Any thoughts on this and (getting back to the topic) how this is related to "big" amps.
All the above being said, I find the low powered GC I have (very inadequate heatsink) even satisfying on the 85dB speakers. 100 commercial Watts just isn't what its cracked up to be.
Sandy.
Here, I agree a 'bigger is better' attitude is present. I also think that efficiency is becoming more apparent than in the past decade.
On my bedroom system, with 85-ish dB speakers and a mid-90's HK home theater receiver, if I turn it down so low as to just barely hear it, I only hear the "mid" portion. A few clicks up and I hear most of the range. Many more clicks and they start to "sing." A few more and its just too loud.
Now the question: Is this a function of the speaker design (I doubt it) the amp in the receiver (still kind of doubt it) or a function of my ears? I'm guessing the last one.
Are human ears most sensitive to the ‘mids,’ the region where I guess voices are usually? I have noticed in my car that running speakers from the head unit, a similar phenomenon occurs. When running them from an external amp (no sub) it seems less. I have no idea of the actual dB we're talking, but I'd guess all are well below 75.
Any thoughts on this and (getting back to the topic) how this is related to "big" amps.
All the above being said, I find the low powered GC I have (very inadequate heatsink) even satisfying on the 85dB speakers. 100 commercial Watts just isn't what its cracked up to be.
Sandy.
yes
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
the lowest curve, "Hörschwelle" is the sensitivity
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.