Voicing an amplifier: general discussion

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This discussion is interesting, yldouright, and I think you are on the right track.
With regard to amplifier design and 'voicing': For many decades I was not a believer in 'voicing', but about 20 years ago, I ran up against a real problem. I could make an amp with a good topology, all complementary push-pull, 100V/us, high current available, high voltage swing available, and Class A to the first 10W or so. YET, it failed the listening test, by two of my closest associates at the time. This does not include the earlier situation with another design, where I removed the input IC, to change the design and get it accepted by Stereophile.
What could it be? Could it be fixed? (more later)

Good to see that story back in the mix. I was being sarcastic earlier but maybe you know, since you use PC boards. How do you get the directionality right, I mean how to reverse the goes in vs. goes out lines (as stated by Mr. Crump as necessary) on a PC board? Maybe the abuse that the copper sees when being rolled into a sheet does not cause directionality.
 
So, would you say that the character you described is simply the result of using an underpowered amplifier for the listening level choice, or do you suggest that even, say, a LabGruppen FP14000 or a PKN XE-10000-U would introduce this issue as well?

IMO, if you have to ride the volume control to get a "character" to pop out, that seems more like a PEBVAC than an amplifier issue.

Meh, iunno. :apathic:
Not underpowered in the true sense, rather that the amplifier can't deliver its rated power without excess artifacts being introduced - having experienced what a properly sorted out 20W or so amplifier can deliver in subjective satisfaction, on average sensitivity speakers, it's unnecessary to go to grossly "overpowered" amplifiers, unless that's the only way to "solve" the problem of inadequate engineering.

In simple terms, an amplifier in an audio setup should be able to deliver an acoustic piano rendition which is highly realistic, at the SPLs of the real thing and with convincing intensity - I have an electonic keyboard running now which does that using "miserable" 10W amplifiers - raw power is not the answer ...
 
Some weak designs may do that, but what has that got to do with "PRAT" - which is set by the musicians and the recording engineer? To make an amplifier which changes the speed of the music you need a lot more than, say, a few thermal effects. Where in almost any amp circuit is the FIFO buffer needed to change timing?
No change in speed, merely a change in the perceived emphasis of the beat of the music. People talk of 'driving' drummers - they don't play "fast", it's the way they emphasis the beats in the rhythm that give impetus, a sense of urgency in propelling the music forward - PRaT in the electronics means that those cues are more clearly rendered, the system is more true to the recording.
 
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To make an amplifier which changes the speed of the music you need a lot more than, say, a few thermal effects. Where in almost any amp circuit is the FIFO buffer needed to change timing?
Why do people get so hung up on this? Is it literalism? Silliness? What?

Pace, Rhythm And Timing are subjective discretions of differences that people hear in amps, speakers, maybe even rooms. There are things that parts in the chain can do to alter our sense of PRAT. Frequency response changes can be an easy to understand one. Output impedance differences that lead to differing speaker Q can be another.

Maybe some folks just aren't sensitive to those changes, or simply aren't paying attention. E.G. - A couple of months ago my buddy D.S. and I wanted to play a joke on the audio techs at work. We screwed with the system they use for background music in the shop. We delayed the woofer by about 3 meters. Sounded a real hot mess - way out of time. They never noticed. :confused: Even when we asked "what's wrong with that?" They didn't hear it.

Please remember, a lot of the language used to describe the sound of amps, speakers, turntables, etc isn't meant as an electrical or engineering description. They are a subjective description of what a listener senses.
 
counter culture
Yes, a color computer display has bit depth of 256 voltage steps for each color but the decision about which voltage to send is still an on or off decision. I seem to recall that it took around nine years of LCD product development to produce a product that matched the color gamut linearity of the top Sony CRT. Some will say that it is still inferior in certain measures even today.

fas42
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In my opinion, it is the curve of the timing and not just the timing itself as jcx infers. The lilt of breath on a clarinet is a good example. It is subtle but it conveys the emotional intent of the player. This effect can be exacerbated when many instruments are heard simultaneously.
 
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