Did your 16 YO buddies get a bandpass sub? That is one where the speaker is totally inside the cabinet (usually viewable under plexiglass) with some ports to vent the noise outside.
If this is the case I would imagine that they have NO crossover installed and your hearing mids bleed through the ports.
If this is the case I would imagine that they have NO crossover installed and your hearing mids bleed through the ports.
burnedfingers said:
I don't understand. The REL Studio III, arguably one of the best subs available (it better be at $8000) and has a response to 100Hz. Dynaudio's SUB 500 goes at high as 250Hz. Many, many more high end subs have frequency responses above 80Hz. Why would you make such a statement when it is blatently not true?
Quote:
Why would you make such a statement when it is blatently not true?
So far I don't see any proof as to me being wrong. I suggest you find some information on professional installation that includes frequency response.
Just because a certain company makes a product that cost XXXX amount and the public is stupid enought to purchase it doesn't make it correct or state of the art.
Quote:
I don't understand. The REL Studio III, arguably one of the best subs available (it better be at $8000) and has a response to 100Hz.
Responce to 100HZ hummm. Does this mean that its crossed at 100HZ? Does this mean that its crossed over below 80HZ at say 24DB per oct and still has information left at 100HZ? I don't think you have a clue here and based on the information here there is nothing to go by. I suggest some nice graphs of frequency response.
I suggest you dig up some hard information here or be happy with your little "Cube" systems with response up in the 200HZ realm.
Why would you make such a statement when it is blatently not true?
So far I don't see any proof as to me being wrong. I suggest you find some information on professional installation that includes frequency response.
Just because a certain company makes a product that cost XXXX amount and the public is stupid enought to purchase it doesn't make it correct or state of the art.
Quote:
I don't understand. The REL Studio III, arguably one of the best subs available (it better be at $8000) and has a response to 100Hz.
Responce to 100HZ hummm. Does this mean that its crossed at 100HZ? Does this mean that its crossed over below 80HZ at say 24DB per oct and still has information left at 100HZ? I don't think you have a clue here and based on the information here there is nothing to go by. I suggest some nice graphs of frequency response.
I suggest you dig up some hard information here or be happy with your little "Cube" systems with response up in the 200HZ realm.
1st: There is not much difference between 80 Hz and 100 Hz (approx 4 semi-tones) at all.
The REL subs have an adjustable crossover (i.e. lowpass) so they can be crossed over at 80 Hz as well or even much lower, depending on the mains.
The ubiquitous 80 Hz derive from some movie-industry standards.
2nd: It is absolutely impossible that there are NO voices coming out of a sub, given that our hearing has a dynamic range of 120 dB and most sub crossovers have a steepness of 24 dB/octave.
When the sub is well integrated however we don't PERCEIVE any vocals coming from it due to masking and the Haas effect.
If it has to be crossed over at only 6 dB/Octave the quality requirements for the driver(s) and amplifier are much higher than for those using steeper crossovers.
Regards
Charles
The REL subs have an adjustable crossover (i.e. lowpass) so they can be crossed over at 80 Hz as well or even much lower, depending on the mains.
The ubiquitous 80 Hz derive from some movie-industry standards.
2nd: It is absolutely impossible that there are NO voices coming out of a sub, given that our hearing has a dynamic range of 120 dB and most sub crossovers have a steepness of 24 dB/octave.
When the sub is well integrated however we don't PERCEIVE any vocals coming from it due to masking and the Haas effect.
If it has to be crossed over at only 6 dB/Octave the quality requirements for the driver(s) and amplifier are much higher than for those using steeper crossovers.
Regards
Charles
Banned
Joined 2002
Those kids are crazy, part II
What about it?
You cross it as you want, it's your sub.
Very likely.
Btw, the variable filter is usually not 24db/oct.
You would need a 4-gang pot to do that.
It's more like 12db/oct, with another fixed 2nd order filter just above the end of the scale (150~200Hz) .
I have found out by myself that this works very well, really. I use the variable filter set at 50~55Hz.
Now, listening to voices coming out of the sub with the main speakers connected and listening to music?
Those kids are crazy.
That's not hi-fi, that's boombox territory.
burnedfingers said:
What about it?
burnedfingers said:
You cross it as you want, it's your sub.
burnedfingers said:
Very likely.
Btw, the variable filter is usually not 24db/oct.
You would need a 4-gang pot to do that.
It's more like 12db/oct, with another fixed 2nd order filter just above the end of the scale (150~200Hz) .
I have found out by myself that this works very well, really. I use the variable filter set at 50~55Hz.
Now, listening to voices coming out of the sub with the main speakers connected and listening to music?
Those kids are crazy.
That's not hi-fi, that's boombox territory.
on semantics alone burnedfingers is correct. Calling something a sub means that it is capable of ULF ? or that it is to be used for that only? Its tough to decipher what the marketing weasel was at on some of the things we read. If it goes over 100 and has a hard time working at 40 i go with the BLOSE and call it a woofer (bassModule) since its not allowed to be called a subwoofer.
Just because it will play above 80 hz doesnt mean thats its intended purpose.
Just because it will play above 80 hz doesnt mean thats its intended purpose.
Here are two expensive high end subwoofers that contradict what you say. There are more, but I do not have all night to copy and paste text. If you respond, please leave the attitude out and discuss this like adults.
Dynaudio SUB 500
Price: $2000
Frequency Response 18 - 250 Hz
Amplifier Power 250 W
Lowpass Flat/60/80/100 Hz (18dB/octave)
Phase adjustment 0°/90°/180°/270°
Woofer 12" (30 cm)
Weight 30,5 kg
Dimensions (W x H x D in mm) 360 x 378 x 568
Sub Utopia Be
Price: $6000
Drivers 16" W Woofer, 3" voice coil, multiferrites magnet
(18 x 3" magnets)
In room response (-6dB) 16Hz
Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 20Hz - 160Hz
Amplifier BASH® 1000Wrms
Line inputs LFE Direct on RCA
LFE Direct on XLR (balanced)
Stereo on RCA
Stereo on XLR (balanced)
Line outputs LFE Direct on XLR (balanced)
Stereo on XLR (balanced)
Active crossover Adjustable from 40 to 160Hz (18dB/octave)
IPhase Adjustable from 0 to 180°
Mode selector Auto/off/on
Dimensions (HxWxD) 19.7 x 20.9 x 24.9in
Net weight 52kg (114.6lbs)
Here are two expensive high end subwoofers that contradict what you say. There are more, but I do not have all night to copy and paste text. If you respond, please leave the attitude out and discuss this like adults. Sorry, I had to respond, I just couldn't help myself.
Dynaudio SUB 500
Price: $2000
Frequency Response 18 - 250 Hz
Amplifier Power 250 W
Lowpass Flat/60/80/100 Hz (18dB/octave)
Phase adjustment 0°/90°/180°/270°
Woofer 12" (30 cm)
Weight 30,5 kg
Dimensions (W x H x D in mm) 360 x 378 x 568
Sub Utopia Be
Price: $6000
Drivers 16" W Woofer, 3" voice coil, multiferrites magnet
(18 x 3" magnets)
In room response (-6dB) 16Hz
Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 20Hz - 160Hz
Amplifier BASH® 1000Wrms
Line inputs LFE Direct on RCA
LFE Direct on XLR (balanced)
Stereo on RCA
Stereo on XLR (balanced)
Line outputs LFE Direct on XLR (balanced)
Stereo on XLR (balanced)
Active crossover Adjustable from 40 to 160Hz (18dB/octave)
IPhase Adjustable from 0 to 180°
Mode selector Auto/off/on
Dimensions (HxWxD) 19.7 x 20.9 x 24.9in
Net weight 52kg (114.6lbs)
Quote:
Here are two expensive high end subwoofers that contradict what you say. There are more, but I do not have all night to copy and paste text. If you respond, please leave the attitude out and discuss this like adults.
Just because two "High End" manufacturers list response in the mid bass region doesn't make any point as far as I am concerned.
What I am looking for is text to back up the fact that the subwoofer region is extended that far. You have shown me nothing so far.
Side note*
With respect to my attitude....I suggest you also take a good look at your own.
Here are two expensive high end subwoofers that contradict what you say. There are more, but I do not have all night to copy and paste text. If you respond, please leave the attitude out and discuss this like adults.
Just because two "High End" manufacturers list response in the mid bass region doesn't make any point as far as I am concerned.
What I am looking for is text to back up the fact that the subwoofer region is extended that far. You have shown me nothing so far.
Side note*
With respect to my attitude....I suggest you also take a good look at your own.
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_print.jsp?product_id=10485
We are both wrong....
I just found this Pioneer with subwoofer response from 30-2000HZ. Thus proving that anything is possible. No need for a high pass filter on the main speakers either. Just let everything blend and duplicate. No need to worry about placement either.
We are both wrong....
I just found this Pioneer with subwoofer response from 30-2000HZ. Thus proving that anything is possible. No need for a high pass filter on the main speakers either. Just let everything blend and duplicate. No need to worry about placement either.
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